Importing Foreign-trained nurses - page 3
Importing Foreign-trained Nurses Comparison of Pending Legislation on Nursing Immigration Issues 11/05/01 "The American Nurses Association (ANA) has posted a chart which compares two bills... Read More
Nov 14, '01<If you sometimes looked around at 'world' news, nurses in those '3rd world' (whatever the hell that means), go on strikes, quit jobs and so on when they are not being treated well or paid well>
Youre right about that. And just what did too many US nurses say when the nurses in Warsaw, Poland went on strike for months last year, storming government offices, barricading streets, and scuffling with the police over the poverty-level wages they were being paid?? And what did too many US nurses say recently when Canadian nurses of entire provinces threatened a mass resignation that would have shut down healthcare in their states - because the govt wasnt addressing their issues & then wanted to take away their right to strike over it?? Too many US nurses BLASTED these brave nurses for their "unprofessionalism"!!! As if to too many US nurses, it is "unprofessional" to demand decent wages and working conditions for themselves.
Anyway, since this topic has elicited such strong emotion, I just want to clarify that the ANA is NOT condemming foreign-trained nurses working in this country nor is it attempting to prevent foreign nurse recruitment. It is objecting only to the hospitals push to drastically INCREASE the numbers of foreign-trained nurses they can bring in to fill the gap RATHER THAN focus on repairing the problems and conditions the hospitals foster that are driving US nurses away & keeping them away.
Also, the ANA is objecting to hospitals enticing more and more foreign-trained nurses to leave their countries in the midst of their own severe nursing shortages, where many times they are the only healthcare professional available to their communities. Drawing nurses away from places where they are desparately needed just so you dont have to deal with fixing your own problems & attracting the nurses you already have available in your own country is pretty offensive, ethically.
Besides that, I know of one recruiter who was sent to the United Kingdom with a budget of a million $$$ to recruit UK nurses (at the same time the UK is having its own shortage & is trying to recruit from India, Phillipines,and all points East.) Reminds me of the song "here we go round the mulberry bush". Anyway, how many of us cant think of 50 other ways that hospital could have better spent that million $$$ & alleviated its shortage with just the non-working US nurses in its own area if it had put the money to correcting the things we are saying are keeoping us away?
Nov 14, '01Sharon,
Just type "African American fund" into your web browser.
I didn't take a "shot" at them. I made a statement.
Since no other race is eligible for it, that would make it "exclusionary". There are also other race exclusionary and grants available. It's a fact.
I wonder if the salary of your phillipino mgr is in line with the national average? The cost of recruitment must be made up somewhere.
You say you work with hispanics. Were they all recruited form Mexico? I don't think that's likely, but that is the subject of my "tirade". Not ALL hispanics in the U.S. come from other countries obviousely. If they do they come here to work, they're not on vacation and if they get your job your not going to get it back.
Do you want to know how I can know this?..........BECAUSE IT HAPPEND TO ME. You want to see what's instore for you if you support a bill to fund it? Be my guest, but before you wave Old Glory in support of taxpayer financed immigration look at just one blue collar industry in any border state. Your government already funds (with a subsidy to employers) the hiring of immigrants.
I'm not talking about U.S citizens that happen to be hispanic. I'm not talking about blacks that are fortunate enough to have thier own scholarship. The croations have thier own scholarship too, as well as every other race that can get away with it without it being a crime, or being slammed as a racist group.
Well except for one........can you guess? (I am citing exclusionary grants and scholarships only) All the other races can get any scholarship that the non-exclusionary race can, so they compete equaly(as it should be in the first place).......................That is unless you fall into a tax bracket that has to PAY the taxes that fund the scholarships in the first place.
Then you are not entitled to any.
That brings me to the conclusion that I am suffering reverse discrimination and will be "bitc* slapped" if I ever dare bring it up.
Sharon, I want to cover all of it with you, but I am pressed for time. In the meantime, would you look for some other posts on this same thread that seem to at least partially qualify what I'm saying? When I see your response I'll know you have.
Look forward to talking to you.
Columbia, MDLast edit by Peeps Mcarthur on Nov 15, '01
Nov 14, '01Of course, sir, it is not right and funnels money into areas that one can say do not deal with the interests of the host country.
By your own narrow definitions this makes you a "racist pig".
We share this same viewpoint.
Welcome to the club....................You can pick up your confederate flag at most any Walmart south of the Mason-Dixon line...................Enjoy your crow.
Nov 14, '01The problem is not a shortage of nurses in the US that will be "solved" by importing anyone from anywhere.
The problem is a world-wide shortage, leading to a "revolving door" syndrome. There is a publication over here called Nursing Careers and Allied health (website:[URL=http://www.ncah.com] ) which is now half full of ads for RN's to work OS - in the UK, USA, Ireland, Canada, Saudi, etc.
The answer? I DON'T KNOW!! When I find a solution, I'll let you all in on the secret, and we can all work in comfort, with adequate staffing levels.
Nov 14, '01<<the answer I DONT KNOW>>
Of course you do! Forget the gimmicks and forget throwing money away on trips abroad......
* INVEST IN THE WORKPLACE ENVIRONMENT!!
* USE THE MONEY TO IMPROVE WORKPLACE CONDITIONS
* BUY ERGONOMIC EQUIPMENT TO HELP WITH THE PHYSICAL LABOR OF THE JOB SO WE CAN STILL WORK THESE WEARY BONES AT THE BEDSIDE WELL PAST OUR 40's - and will WANT to
* PUT THE MONEY INTO INCREASING SALARIES, BENEFITS, AND OTHER COMPENSATION LIKE DIFFERENTIALS FOR ADDITIONAL EDUCATION, YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, SPECIALTY CERTIFICATION, ETC
* OFFER ATTRACTIVE PENSIONS/RETIREMENT PLANS THAT WOULD BE AN INCENTIVE TO KEEP WORKING & BUILDING ON
* FREE HEALTH BENEFITS FOR NURSES & THEIR FAMILIES
* FLEXIBLE SCHEDULES THAT FIT OUR LIFE'S OTHER RESPONSIBILITIES (I can also work 10am - 2pm on Tuesdays & Fridays but instead, am only working 12 hr weekends because the hospital says "we dont do that 4 hour thing" - theyd rather just work short-staffed all day, I guess)
* ABOLISH MANDATORY OVERTIME AND OTHER ABUSIVE MANAGEMENT PRACTICES
* RESPECT THE NURSING STAFF & RECOGNIZE THEM AS BEING JUST AS ESSENTIAL AS THE MEDICAL STAFF - instead of treating us like the manor's scullery maid
* INCLUDE NURSES IN MAKING THE DECISIONS AND POLICIES THAT AFFECT THEM, THEIR PRACTICE, AND PT CARE
* RECOGNIZE THAT STAFFING IS KEY TO QUALITY CARE AND PTS MUST COME BEFORE THE PROFIT MARGIN - AGREE TO SAFE STAFFING GUIDELINES/RATIOS & MAKE A COMMITTMENT TO MAINTAIN THEM
see how easy that was??? ; )
Nov 15, '01JT,
You are so right, but wouldn't it be easier to just bring in some "nurses" from other countries and hang thier temporary visas over thier heads so they'll do ANYTHING that management wants? ...........................I had no idea this was going on. That hospital administration gig is some real cloak and dagger stuff.
Nov 16, '01Lets face it we have a worldwide nursing shortage (I believe only Spain isn't having any problems at this time). Moving nurses from one country to another isn't going to solve the problem. We are going to have to come up with other solutions, since it is only going to get worse.
I have nothing against foreign trained RN's, I did my training in The Netherlands and was able to adjust just fine. I have also worked with several Philipino nurses, some great some bad. I understand the programs there aren't the quality they used to be, since they are trying to educate to many.
We need to focus on retention, drawing nurses back into the workforce, for example by offering better childcare. It must be so hard to work shiftwork with children, who is going to take care of them when you are working nights? I don't think there are many nightcares around, are there? Then last but not least is recruitment and expansion of the nursing programs. I am sure we would be able to train a lot more nurses if the hospitals would be allowed to be more involved (I am not talking about completely returning to the hospital operated schools). It would also help if it wouldn't be so expensive for potential nurses to go to school. I am sure there are many bright people in their twenties or thirties, who would love to go back to school, but can just not afford to do so. These people would be available to strenghten the RN workforce for about 30 years and also will bring life experience to the job, which is a very good background for a nurse I think.
Nov 16, '01I have worked with many many foreign nurses and doctors. The Federal Gov. hires them by the boat load. I recently worked will a couple from Russia. Some are good and some are really bad.
No matter what anyones says foreign nurses are hired because its cheap, dependable labor. I am mainly talking about nurses from Asia & Eastern Europe. Those nurses usually do not go back either, why would they want to?
Hospitals could get American nurses if they wanted to. They just do not want to pay what we're worth or treat us like the professionals we are. There is a large number of nurses that just do not practice nursing. They are doing something else.
As for the Canadian's and British; they have always been the best friends America has ever had. So I always welcome them with opens arms.
Lately I have begun to really question if Nursing is a "True" profession. No other profession has the problems we do because the others have atonomy and unity. It seems we are more of a science based technical trade. I think possibly a lot our problems are related in some form to that.
Just my opinion
Nov 16, '01I always thought that nursing is universal, u may be using modern tech. that others dont have, but we basically have the same goal-caring for people.
Sometimes, nurses in countries with poor pre-hospital care are expose to all types of cases everyday.Clinical skills and hands-on experience are develop at a rapid phase.
You may have the technology but we have the knowledge and skills to care of any kind of patient.We can take care of all patients even with limited resourses.
I think we should exchange places,and see who would adjust first!
I'm just trying to make a point here!
Nov 16, '01Franklin,
Thank God someone who is directly affected by this bill has posted!
I'm sure that it's the same there as everywhere else. Like some recent posters have stated, you have some good, and some bad. I think you could find the same anywhere.
If you are skilled then fine, bring it on.............America is a land of opportunity.
Franklin, do you think I should pay for you to have that opportunity with my government taxes.
I will not attack you for your oppinion like some other posters on this thread I really want to know what you think of this bill.
I'm sure there are others on this thread that would like to honestly discuss the issues with someone who is actually from the fillipines and as skilled as you are.
Nov 16, '01I am in now way trying to be rude. But I don't agree with foreign nurses being hired to come here and practice in this country. If they want to be here, they should live here, go to school here and committ their life to the USA. We are way to leaniant on immigrants comming into this country, look at Sept. 11th. We trusted these people to come here and learn here and then what did they do. Yes I think if people want to be nurses here, great, then come here learn here, pay for things like we have to!!! Funding by the USA is dumb and irresponsible on our part. We need to make it better for the nurses we already have, who SPEAK our language and know our ways.
Why is it, we are willing to help these people, but we can't even make it better for the people who are already here?????? Its very sad!
This is just my opinion, so if you don't like it, forget what I said. I respect what others think, thats your right, so respect mine.
Nov 16, '01jt...yes you have the answers. so do the hospitals and thats what really pisses me off. it is simple so why sidestep around all that?
this has nothing to do with the foreign nurses being good or bad. i dont think its fair to say either way. im sure some are good and some are bad. just like here.
we are undermining our own people, our own culture.
its not going to be easy for these imported nurses. i remember how hard it was for me starting out. i had to pass the "initiation". i shed many a tear over the way i was treated. i got to the point where i didnt even want to go to work any more.
these are nurses who are going to come into a situation they are unprepared for. i doubt very much the hospitals are going to prepare them for what they are up against. they are going to paint a very pretty picture.
and our nurses are not going to be very friendly or open to these nurses. for some reason our profession is not very kind to our new nurses. these foreign nurses are going to have to deal with that attitude PLUS feelings about the whole importation policy. i cant help but feel sorry for them. i dont think they know what they are getting into.
the recruiter isnt going to tell them they are walking into a situation that already has problems. they arent going to say "we are hiring you because you will work cheaper than the american nurses and you will eat more crap"
they are telling them how great its going to be and that we will welcome them with open arms. they are telling them how great it is to live here and how much money they will make.
i know years ago i checked into nursing in saudi (thank god i didnt do that). how could it be bad
...ALL your expenses are paid. and NO TAXES. can you imagine how much money you would be able to save? sounded great but then i found out that i would have to comply with their culture. knowing myself as i do, i knew id get there, stay a week or two then be sorry, VERY sorry.
i dunno....i cant help but feel sorry for these nurses. they are being used and they dont even know it.
Nov 16, '01It should be made clear that immigrants are a large and important part of the country and they pay taxes as well. I am a Canadian and moved to the US and got American citizenship and now live back in Canada. I never got anything free or had any fabulous programs from the US gov't that payed me anything. If anyone should be annoyed about nurses moving to the US (from Canada at least), it's Canadians. Their taxes supplemented my education so that I could become a nurse and then leave and work and pay taxes in another country. Obviously taxes fund a lot of crap I don't agree with, but I am not opposed to foreign nurses coming here to work. I don't know any foreign nurses in my unit who were recipients of gov't money either.
I know immigration is a bit of a scapegoat sometimes, but let's be honest, immigrants wouldn't be keeping wages down if nurses were organized. I am now in a provincial union and every nurse who works in the province has to be a member. Foreign nurses are not allowed to be payed less or worked to death so I don't see them as a threat at all. Simple.