Healthcare is NOT a basic human right. - page 52

by Asystole RN

48,166 Views | 622 Comments

If one were to read the Constitution one would realize that the Constitution does not grant anyone freedoms, liberties, or rights. The Constitution only protects freedoms, liberties, and rights from transgressions on part of the... Read More


  1. 0
    Quote from JMBnurse

    Not directed at just you, CountyRat, but what should Americans who work full time and can't get insurance coverage do? Should they quit their jobs and apply for Medicaid? Should they ignore medical issues because they can't afford to pay up front to see a doctor? A young person with a full time job and health insurance not offered where they work may not be able to afford even a visit to the Health Dept., much less a specialist or any tests because they have to pay for rent and food. I know many people in this situation. Some with medical conditions that require medication and regular follow-up care and they don't receive it because they cannot afford it and they do not qualify for Medicaid.

    What should they do?
    Well, I don't think any of us can answer that question within the confines of this DB, however, as to your question regarding the young person who is barely making ends meet but doesn't qualify for assistance; How does taxing that same person more to pay for those who do qualify and then fining the same young person for not being able to afford the government mandated insurance going to help them? How are they supposed to afford what they can't afford now with less take home pay?
  2. 0
    Quote from toekneejo
    Well, I don't think any of us can answer that question within the confines of this DB, however, as to your question regarding the young person who is barely making ends meet but doesn't qualify for assistance; How does taxing that same person more to pay for those who do qualify and then fining the same young person for not being able to afford the government mandated insurance going to help them? How are they supposed to afford what they can't afford now with less take home pay?
    They could afford the health insurance premium. It isn't offered where they work. They already pay taxes. They can afford premiums and taxes taken out, they cannot afford hundreds of dollars in cash up front for office visits, medications and tests.
  3. 3
    As I have witnessed in my own home with a friend of mine who was injured, while self-employed with no insurance, went to a free clinic, they found him treatment and he enrolled in a hospital program that waived his payment. He renews his eligibility annually. My daughter who was in between jobs with no insurance was able to get treated and negotiated a payment plan with her local hospital-and I helped her some as I was able to. There are ways to get treatment and negotiate-you just have to ask. Most people don't-pride, lack of knowledge-don't know, but you can find a way. I don't mean to be preachy-but if you are young, have medical issues, need care for chronic problems, then that should be a priority. Do they go out to eat?, Do they go to movies?, Do they own a smart phone? Do they pay for car insurance?Do they have cable /satellite or , Do they get their hair or nails done every 6 weeks? I mean you have to make hard choices on where you are going to budget your hard earned money.
  4. 0
    Quote from JMBnurse
    They could afford the health insurance premium. It isn't offered where they work. They already pay taxes. They can afford premiums and taxes taken out, they cannot afford hundreds of dollars in cash up front for office visits, medications and tests.
    I totally agree they need to get themselves insurance. It's not very good "consumer math" to be able to afford insurance and yet still be paying as a self pay. Whether insurance is available thru the workplace or not does not necessarily mean it is going to cost less (especially once the ACA has totally been initiated). If they can afford it, they need to go shopping around and find a plan that meets their needs. If they look into various organizations they may even be able to get into a group insurance plan. In addition, if there are so many people that fit into this category then they can call up BC/BS or fill in the blank insurance company and actually "create" a group plan. Sort of like what the small business org has done for self employed people. A back yard mechanic who is self employed and yet is barely getting by or maybe he is the most successful one in town. Either way they both would qualify to open a policy that has group rates and bargaining power.
  5. 1
    Quote from cdsga
    As I have witnessed in my own home with a friend of mine who was injured, while self-employed with no insurance, went to a free clinic, they found him treatment and he enrolled in a hospital program that waived his payment. He renews his eligibility annually. My daughter who was in between jobs with no insurance was able to get treated and negotiated a payment plan with her local hospital-and I helped her some as I was able to. There are ways to get treatment and negotiate-you just have to ask. Most people don't-pride, lack of knowledge-don't know, but you can find a way.
    Wow, that's great. Your friend and daughter are very lucky. I worked with a Unit Secretary who was paid just a little over minimum wage and was in a car accident a few years ago. She was brought to the hospital where we worked and treated. Her stay was brief, maybe 24 hours. She tried to negotiate a payment plan because she had two children and again, was earning very little. She had insurance through the hospital, so most of the bills were paid. 6 mos. after the accident, the hospital took her to court and sued her for the remainder of the bill she owed and was making payments on. This was the hospital where she had worked for years. I know several people who have been turned over to collection agencies just a few mos. after incurring a bill and trying to work out payments with the hospital. In my experience, hospitals, clinics, physicians, labs, etc. no longer negotiate. They want the full amount you owe today. Sometimes, they will give you a deal if you pay the bill in full today in cash.
    lindarn likes this.
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    The original post is highly disturbing. That's like saying ”forget the poor, those who deserve to live and be served are the ones who have money to pay for it.” A nurse is someone who cares for people regardless of their economic status.
    msteeleart and JMBnurse like this.
  7. 2
    Quote from cdsga
    As I have witnessed in my own home with a friend of mine who was injured, while self-employed with no insurance, went to a free clinic, they found him treatment and he enrolled in a hospital program that waived his payment. He renews his eligibility annually. My daughter who was in between jobs with no insurance was able to get treated and negotiated a payment plan with her local hospital-and I helped her some as I was able to. There are ways to get treatment and negotiate-you just have to ask. Most people don't-pride, lack of knowledge-don't know, but you can find a way. I don't mean to be preachy-but if you are young, have medical issues, need care for chronic problems, then that should be a priority. Do they go out to eat?, Do they go to movies?, Do they own a smart phone? Do they pay for car insurance?Do they have cable /satellite or , Do they get their hair or nails done every 6 weeks? I mean you have to make hard choices on where you are going to budget your hard earned money.

    I totally agree!!!!! I think many people need a course in consumer math followed up with an explanation of "Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs". I know it is frustrating to work all week and not be able to "treat" yourself to something but it seems that many in our society have lost the meaning of sacrifice and of "all things in moderation" Just look at walmart and the huge amount of total junk they sell everyday. Next take the issue of refined sugar, 40 years ago kids saw candy for Easter, Halloween and some nasty hard stuff at Christmas. Cakes and pies were also only seen for special occasions. Water (many times drank from a hose) was the main source of beverage, with milk for meals and soda as a special treat. Car pools weren't a public service announcement but every family in my neighborhood knew the concept (out of necessity). Everyone I knew had a TV but many didn't have color and most didn't have cable. New clothes were bought before each school year and 2 pairs of pants was to last until they were replaced at Christmas! (considered your big gift) It goes on and on. No we don't want to go back there but that's the difference. Wants are only wants. Yes healthcare is important and should be just about the second thing to be paid every month right behind housing that one can afford. Ok done with my soapbox
    Szasz_is_Right and Fiona59 like this.
  8. 0
    "The "choice" only exists on the side of the consumer, not on the side of the provider."

    Again, this is wrong. Go through the phone book and call some doctors offices, particularly specialists, and ask if they are accepting new patients. You'll find that many are CHOOSING not to accept new patients. Also providers make a choice to practice in the first place. So your whole argument that there is no choice is null and void.

    "
    Article 4, section 2, clause 3."

    You mean this? "
    No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, But shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due." This is hardly a constitutional allowance of slavery, by the federal government, rather an affirmation of states rights. None the less the clause is superceded by the 13th amendment anyways. There is a process for changing the constitution, unfortunately the ACA just undermines the constitution without the proper process.

    As for the enumeration clause - ""The Constitution contains the enumeration clause, which counts slaves as 3/5's of a person, the entire reason for needing this definition was that theFederal government did not allow slaves to vote."

    Wrong again! Article 1, Section 2, deals with the house of representatives, taxes and how they are apportioned. "Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons." How you get "the federal government did not allow slaves to vote" out of that is mind boggling.

    Who taught you constitutional law? Barry Soetoro?
    Last edit by realmaninuniform on Oct 15, '12
  9. 0
    So you're argument over access to healthcare insurance is?? The woman in this post had insurance and still couldn't pay the bill. What is the issue. The post is about the right to health care and insurance. she had both and still couldn't pay. So she got the care-she still got sued? Something is missing. She either didn't fulfill her end of the negotiation or didn't pay-there's another side to this story.
    If you are given access to healthcare insurance and healthcare-and you still can't afford to pay the amount you are responsible for, should it be written off? Are you saying that healthcare should be free?
  10. 0
    Quote from cdsga
    So you're argument over access to healthcare insurance is?? The woman in this post had insurance and still couldn't pay the bill. What is the issue. The post is about the right to health care and insurance. she had both and still couldn't pay. So she got the care-she still got sued? Something is missing. She either didn't fulfill her end of the negotiation or didn't pay-there's another side to this story.
    If you are given access to healthcare insurance and healthcare-and you still can't afford to pay the amount you are responsible for, should it be written off? Are you saying that healthcare should be free?
    That post was not about the Affordable Healthcare Act, it was in response to your post about "negotiating". Many years ago, I was told that if you had a hospital bill, either with or without insurance, you could just talk to them and "negotiate" and make whatever payment you could afford, even if it was "just $50.00 a mos." and that was true....then. Not now. I had a $4,000.00 hospital bill 6 years ago and they would not negotiate any payments. They wanted the full amount right then and there. I had to put it on a credit card. This was just a month after discharge. If I had not paid the full amount on the credit card, they would have turned me over to a collection agency.

    So, I'm just saying that if negotiating and making payments worked for you and yours, consider yourself lucky. Not the case for everyone. I support the mandate and single-payer.


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