Healthcare is NOT a basic human right. - page 32

If one were to read the Constitution one would realize that the Constitution does not grant anyone freedoms, liberties, or rights. The Constitution only protects freedoms, liberties, and rights from... Read More

  1. by   cdsga
    You can't afford insurance, but have you looked at your budget? It seems that if insuring yourself is as important as feeding, clothing and sheltering yourself you would need to look at some austerity measures. You have internet, cable, eat out, watch movies, play games, get manis/pedis, have a smart phone, get your hair colored, styled, buy clothes from a retailer... just a few of the things you can cut out to give you more to spend on insurance. Not being judgmental but there are things that people spend money on that could be cut temporarily in order to pay for absolutes. Are you willing to go to an austerity plan? Most are not quite ready.
  2. by   Fiona59
    Quote from ParkerBeanCurdRN,BSN
    . , there are laws that need to be followed. There is a process to immigrate. It took me a little over a year to become a citizen of Canada, although I am back in the states. Regardless, I did not cross the border and set up camp.

    Again, I don't have the answers but these are questions and thoughts I ponder.
    Uhm, it might have taken a year to obtain permanent resident status but full citizenship takes living here for at least three years.
  3. by   FMF Corpsman
    This may be slightly off topic, but it relates to our countries, (USA), fiscal responsibilities. Last night on the news, there was a story about a women and her four children who were forced to jump from a 3rd story window after the apartment they were living in caught fire. It caught fire from a candle they had in the bathroom because they had no electricity because they had recently moved in, from a shelter they were living at. I realize that the Government can’t be the answer for everything for everybody, but it certainly seems to be that unless you are a citizen of the US. We send aid all over the world in the amount of trillions of dollars yet our own people are without the basic staples of life. They don’t even have electricity, let alone medical care. The 14-year-old girl who went out the window first yesterday broke toes in both of her feet; I wonder how they are going to deal with that. I also guess they will be moving back to the shelter since the apartment is uninhabitable now. My point is that our government sends untold amounts of money all over the world, and we can’t even afford to take care of our own. Or should I say, we choose not to take care of our own. I find that appalling. I think it is time we stop trying to take care of a world that (a) hates us to begin with, and (b) we can no longer afford to subsidize.
    Last edit by FMF Corpsman on Oct 5, '12 : Reason: HTML tags
  4. by   joanna73
    This has certainly been an interesting thread. I must interject for a response to previous posts regarding the notion that Canada has low immigration, and is mostly white. False on both points. People immigrate to Canada from all over the world, partially because our immigration policies are more flexible than many other countries. We are very multicultural, and as a native non-white (biracial) Torontonian, I can attest to the fact that Toronto, and all the other major centres....Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Montreal, Halifax....are very multicultural. Back to regularly scheduled thread.....
  5. by   SA2009

    No cable, need internet to work, don't eat out, seldom watch movies (prefer to read, work 2 jobs, school = no time), don't play games unless it's a board or card game, never had manis or pedis, no smart phone still old flippidiflip, color myself, short hair/curles = styling not needing - going without shampoo too because don't want to pay that money either, buy clothes seldomly because I like a little more pricey so saving up for it.

    My medication alone cost at least $200 a month w/insurance and $800 without insurance, mind you not that my meds for my condition are not covered the first year if they are covered all or only to 60% or whatever; private insurance starts $300-400/month and up... (quality of life = work to pay insurance??) - working so much results in stress results in exacerbation of illness.

    My solution at this point is school to get a job that allows for insurance (how much is that for freedom of choice?) and make lifestyle changes to minimize exacerbation (rather challenging).

    I'm not the only one affected in this manner; actually, I'm fortunate enough to be able to work with the ilness I have. A lot of people I work with are barely scraping by, laterally working 7 days a week, and that in itself is not healthy in itself.

    Unless it will happen to you, it is hard to understand that, yes, you can fall and that really, really quickly, and then what?
  6. by   joanna73
    That's what many forget...the working poor, who are educated with decent jobs, yet they're just surviving, and health care costs are eating away at a large portion of their income. All too common, as the cost of living is high in many cities. Some people have mentioned they would/could rely on family to assist with health care costs if required. Good for you. The reality is, many families cannot afford to help out, or refuse to help out. And I'm that nurse that someone mentioned...helps others...oh no, 20 years later...back injury...disabled...can't afford health care anymore. Darn. What to do?
  7. by   cdsga
    Seriously-I'm in the same boat but I don't want a bail out and I don't want my children to suffer either. The next generation already feels we've caused this mess and they definitely are not sympathetic.

    I feel all of you.
  8. by   joanna73
    Quote from toekneejo
    I have been reading these posts since the first page, it bothers me that two arguments continue to rear there ugly heads. The first being that of indivual sad experiences. As nurses I cannot believe that any nurse would be in favor of a person suffering for any reason. Yet, the proponents for ACA keep acting like that is what the opponents are saying. Most of the opponents , are aware there is a problem. They just aren't willing to support a problem that will not fix the healthcare and has the huge potential to be damaging to the country as a whole unit. The second is that I have not seen one post from the proponents addressing the other concern to the opponents, which is how do we create an environment to where the "poor" are inspired to work harder, sacrifice more to be where we are. I grew up a very poor girl. I'd share my story but I choose not to whine and get trapped in the "poor me" scenerio.
    I can support your argument that the poor should work harder to get a degree. We cannot know what motivates people, or what factors allow some people to be more resillient than others. Yes, there are theories. I am also self made...out of sheer stubbornness, probably. On my own from 16, dropped out of school, returned to school, worked all the way family support at all. Zero. Years later, I have two degrees. Yay for me and everyone else who made it (slight sarcasm here...) My point is, even with hard work and determination, not everyone is as fortunate. People from all walks of life struggle, and by saying, "Pull up your socks, I did it. Just work hard!" Not that simple, and we should not be passing judgement, theorizing that if you work hard, you can afford the things you desire. At the very least, health care should not need to be bartered for in this manner.
  9. by   uRNmyway
    But see, thats the thing. With healthcare for all, taxes will have to go up. So lets say, in Quebec, with a salary of around 85000$ working for an agency, I paid around 45% of my salary in income tax. Thats 38250$ a year in income taxes, plus sales taxes and everything. Now in America, if you make the same salary (I realize that depending on location, salary might not even come close, but this is just to illustrate a point), you have roughly 22000$ in taxes. Take the difference, roughly 16000$. Put it in a savings account. Now here is some money to help pay in the eventuality that you have to get medical care. You can even subtract the cost of private health insurance from that, and put the difference in a savings account.
  10. by   FMF Corpsman
    Quote from toekneejo
    I agree not all people have the drive and survival instincts. I also see the USA as breeding these individiuals. Elementary schools and even some parts of high school it is not politically correct to teach this, we have adopted a philosophy of everyone is a winner and it is creating a whole generation of "losers" (in the real world). I struggled and worked since I was old enough to have a weekly "shopper" route (weekly paper). I have frequently held 2-3 jobs at any given time. I did not have this drive to end up right where I started. So I continue to ascertain my right to do with my belongings (including my job and income) as I see fit.
    toekneejo, I don't know how many of my blogs you may have read, but I have stated numerous times that I don't play the politically correctness game. In this case by doing so, we are robbing these kids of the opportunity to learn the invaluable lessons that not everyone wins all the time, there are in fact losers, everyday and sometimes the pain they will feel from losing will be quite significant, but they will get over it, and they will move on. This is a lesson they will invariably learn down the road where the price will undoubtedly be more costly. By our repeatedly telling these kids that everyone is a winner, when in fact they are struggling with something, we set them up for failure. Teenage depression and suicide is at an all time high, corresponding with everyone running around telling them they are a winner, no one is a failure, is there a correlation? What do you think? Kids need to know it is okay to struggle with something, hell, life is a struggle sometimes, you just do it and keep going. If you need help, you ask for it. There’s no shame in that. It’s only a shame, if you don’t ask. Those who are constantly rewarded with the “I’m a winner,” even though they did nothing to actually earn the reward, are only contributing to our burgeoning entitlement problem, where everyone feels as if they are entitled to everything whether they did anything to earn it or not. They need a big awakening and to come to the realization that if they didn’t earn it they don’t get it. No ifs ands or buts. Period!!!.
    Last edit by FMF Corpsman on Oct 5, '12 : Reason: spelling
  11. by   SA2009
    I don't understand how this is a bailout ... again, right now you are paying insurance premiums to for-profit organization and their profit is giantic ... so, in a universal healthcare system or systems like Canada or Europe, you pay to one institution that redistributes the fund ... it's the same principal. One difference, you cut the competition out and, if I remember from my economy class correctly, demand increases price = increases profit... Why exactly is it in the health insurances best interest nowadays to get us healthy, or keep us healthy through preventative medicine? One distributor for our premiums, be it the government or another institution, cuts out the competatition and, thus, increases in premiums for profit. Ever looked at profits from health insurance companies? If I remember right, they were ranked in the most 20 porfitable business entities in 2011, right along the oil companies.

    Again, I grew up with universal healthcare and I just wished you would experience for just one year, perhaps y'all feel differently. Having said that, and I think I said that before, to compare other countries' systemt to the US is dangerous because so many other factors play in, i.e. mentality and culture.
  12. by   SA2009
    First of all, you have to work up to $85000 and here education is not free, so first invest. Secondly, I'm pretty certain 45% was not only for healthcare, so how much was actually for healthcare?

    In OH, my tax was much higher (without healthcare) because I paid local, state and fed tax, but in TX, I only pay fed tax (without healthcare).

    Also, with pre-existing conditions, a healthcare insurance forces you to pay an increased premium and they will not pay for treatment/meds of your pre-existing condition in the first year. Also, your insurance can actually refuse to pay, which the healthcare insurance in Canada or Europe cannot. Also, insurance definitely can refuse to pay for meds, determine what meds you get or lower whatever percent they pay for meds.

    So, great you have a savings account - now, you lose your job because your employer does not like the color of hair (right to work states). Can't get a job because you're older, have not the required education, etc. What are you going to do now?

    Having lived under universal systems I came with the same belief here, but I learned really quickly and saving accounts can deplete very, very quickly because medical care is not cheap, even if you pay cash, particular if you are hospitalized.
  13. by   cdsga
    Those who can't afford to pay-will continue not to pay-we will still have the same situation. Exemptions will be exploited.
    Anytime you have a gov't run entity-increase the bureaucracy-increase the funding for pet projects-increase the lack of interest in your personal plight/circumstance.

    It's out of my control whether or not universal health care gets run through as is or with some reform.

    I'm stating the way I feel as everyone else, and won't be dissuaded. There will always be safety nets for those who need it.

    The middle class will bear the brunt of the ratio of payment based on salary.

    We will all probably have to lower our expectations on our standard of living. I'm working to be as debt free as I can so I can have some cash to be able to be selective with my healthcare and pay out of pocket if needed.

    I don't want a panel telling me when I'm worthy of a type of procedure or if I'm too sick or too old to receive what I feel I need. I'm fiercely independent and that's how I want to stay as long as I am able.