Controversial Michael Moore Flick 'Sicko' Will Compare U.S. Health Care with Cuba's - page 19

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  1. by   honey10ms
    Quote from mjlrn97
    I got the same thing in the mail a couple days ago, and was immediately put off.:angryfire I lived in California many years ago but have never in my life practiced nursing there, so why is their nurses' union sending me this piece of propaganda urging me to promote a movie, just because I have the initials "RN" after my name?

    This is the sort of thing that gives nursing unions a bad name........I happen to be a VERY strong supporter of universal health care, but does embracing a far-left agenda and promoting Michael Moore's film have to be part of the package? I'd like to think there's room at the discussion table for nurses with ALL kinds of viewpoints, not just those who worship the quicksand MM walks on.

    But, that's just me.
    May I ask how you have supported universal health care for this country?

    I have met many people who say they do, yet there are no actions behind their words. May I suggest you e-mail your congress person and say to them that you support universal health care --that would be HR676 (a bill modeled along the same lines as medicare).
  2. by   CRNI-ICU20
    I don't know if it is still true that in China, you don't pay the doctor if you become sick....ie, the focus is in prevention. So, say you visit your doctor in China once a month, for the prescribed medications, herbs, and alternative therapy treatments, and you are compliant with his/her recommendations, and one month later, you are sicker, or not improved, you do not pay for the visit, or the treatments, or the medications.....
    This seems backwards to us....but, believe me, it puts the onus on the the diagnostician to be not only careful, but correct....if he/she wants to eat the next day!
    The AMA will fight any kind of universal health care system, because they have the very real fear that the drug company bedfellows and other interested lobbyists will no longer be raking in billions of dollars off the backs of the have nots....
    There are four lobbyists for drug companies in Wash. DC for every congressperson....seems to me that the people who need to be talking are WE THE PEOPLE!!
    How delightful if we, as a group of nurses, would help unite an effort to bring this country into the current century, and show the world just how adaptable and willing to change for the better we can be....
    I, for one, would prefer my patients didn't have to chose between taking their heart medication or eating, or having their child seen by a bonafide pediatrician specialist, as opposed to a stressed out ER doc who just wants to go home.....
    We spend hours complaining....we have spent hours complaining....
    but many are faint of heart when it comes to putting rubber to the road and effecting change.....
    It is a David and Goliath fight. I would be happy to take on this effort, but I am fresh out of rocks to throw....
    Personally, I am glad Mr. Moore has cast a few, at least he's showing us what the situation really is for many people....whether we like to look at it or not, it exists.
    Like many who have written here, this situation has been steamrollered by the Iraq war. It's time for all of us to write some letters to our congressperson, and start setting the groundwork for better change in this country...
    We are so vulnerable right now....our government couldn't even get their heads out in an organized fashion to handle Katrina for crying out loud!
    What do you suppose the world sees when they look at our health care system that ignores or rejects a third of it's population? What do you think terrorists think when they realize that a country that cannot, or will not, put money toward infrastructure in it's own self, is by far the easiest target?
    We can have the most sophisticated weaponry in the world, but if we fail to provide even the basic needs for our citizens, our most vulnerable citizens, then what the heck are we DEFENDING with those weapons???
    I am thankful that we are known as benevolent to those in need around the world.....but I think it's time we take care of some business here at home....crni
  3. by   UKRNinUSA
    Quote from Jolie
    Don't forget John Edward's own role in the astronomical cost of health care in this country. I find it a little amusing that he fails to mention tort reform in his plan.
    yeh,yeh,yeh
    but what do you think about the CONCEPT???
  4. by   pickledpepperRN
    "Sicko" Campaign Asks: Who Will Fix U.S. Health Care System?
    Former newspaper and magazine editor Michael Moore's "Sicko" is a staggeringly powerful piece of journalism -- yes, journalism, in the truest sense of what the craft can and should do.

    What makes the documentary on the nightmarish failure of the American health care system such effective journalism is Moore's determination not merely to meticulously illustrate what is wrong with the system -- something that has been done a thousand times by a thousand media outlets, if never quite so entertainingly -- but also his certainty that there is a solution. ...

    ...Moore's not making any endorsements. But he is telling audiences in the key first primary state of New Hampshire -- most recently at a packed event in Manchester that had the filmmaker answering questions along with representatives of Physicians for a National Health Program and the Massachusetts Nurses Association -- that Kucinich "is 100 percent on board" for real reform.

    Moore is also explaining why the proposed reforms of leading candidates -- including John Edwards and Barack Obama -- won't work.

    And he is bluntly suggesting that the flaws in many of the plans proposed by Democratic presidential contenders could have something to do with the fact that those candidates have raised more than $3 million so far this year from individuals and political action committees associated with the for-profit corporations of the health care industry.

    Moore wants candidates to sign a pledge to support free, universal health care "as a human right for every resident of the United States," and to work to remove private insurance companies from providing health care....

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20...ion/45207718_1
  5. by   honey10ms
    People may not be aware but Senator Ted Kennedy tried to get a bill passed 35 years ago regarding universal health insurance.[/SIZE]
    If we do nothing about this situation in American healthcare nothing will change and it is the working class who will suffer the most! RN's unite!!
    Last edit by Tweety on Jun 25, '07 : Reason: Edited size to smaller font.
  6. by   PhilGN
    Quote from mjlrn97
    I got the same thing in the mail a couple days ago, and was immediately put off.:angryfire I lived in California many years ago but have never in my life practiced nursing there, so why is their nurses' union sending me this piece of propaganda urging me to promote a movie, just because I have the initials "RN" after my name?

    This is the sort of thing that gives nursing unions a bad name........I happen to be a VERY strong supporter of universal health care, but does embracing a far-left agenda and promoting Michael Moore's film have to be part of the package? I'd like to think there's room at the discussion table for nurses with ALL kinds of viewpoints, not just those who worship the quicksand MM walks on.

    But, that's just me.
    I saw the movie last night at a sneak preview in Sacramento. For a Michael Moore movie, it's really not that liberal. I mean he does have occasional comments about Iraq or Bush, but his main targets are the health insurance companies and drug companies. He even targets Hillary Clinton in part of the movie(for trying to get universal health care when she was the first lady and now getting the second highest amount of money from the insurance lobby.) He even talks to people abroad who are conservative and in favor of their universal health care systems.
  7. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from honey10ms
    People may not be aware but Senator Ted Kennedy tried to get a bill passed 35 years ago regarding universal health insurance. If we do nothing about this situation in American healthcare nothing will change and it is the working class who will suffer the most! RN's unite!!
    "RN's" do not all agree on the problems and solutions - we are not a monolith.

    I do know about Ted Kennedy. I disagree with him.

    I do not support a universal system of healthcare.

    steph
    Last edit by Tweety on Jun 25, '07 : Reason: edited size of the quote
  8. by   WhiteKnight
    at the end of the film moore takes a group of "gringos," all of whom have been terribly mistreated by the u.s. health care system, to be treated in communist cuba. the hospital moore and his companions are taken to in cuba appears cleaner and more orderly than many u.s. hospitals, with semi-private rooms, crisp, clean sheets, state-of-the-art equipment and upright, english-speaking doctors. the not so subtle message: even communist health care is better than what we've got.
    now i've been to hospitals in cuba, and they don't look at all like the one in moore's film. i can only guess that the facilities we are shown in "sicko" are reserved for the communist hierarchy and foreign vips. the contrast between what we see in the film and cuban reality is dramatic.
    in the two cuban hospitals i visited, the lack of the most basic materials in cuba was readily apparent. hospital personnel were literally begging me for anything i had that could be used to help the sick. one hospital i visited asked me for dental floss because they'd run out of suture material.
    but in "sicko," a $150 inhaler is easily found in a local pharmacy and several are given to one of moore's sick u.s. companions for about 5 cents each. i have never seen or heard of readily available medicines like this for anyone in cuba, and it seemed strangely coincidental that this particular brand just happened to be within easy reach of the first cuban pharmacist that moore and his crew walked in on. this scene was either set up by one of moore's cuban "minders," or moore was a party to a fabricated scene. the only other possibility is that there has been a monumental effort in cuba to clean up its hospitals that has gone largely unreported.
    it probably won't take much to refute the "potemkin village" view that the cubans created for moore's film. it was so over-the-top that any cuban or nicaraguan familiar with the bitter reality of cuban health care will be able to easily refute these images. as it happened, i happened to be sitting next to one such individual during the screening: my wife, who came here from socialist nicaragua in 1988. during one round of applause from the audience (comprised mostly of rich celebrities), she leaned over to me and whispered: "why doesn't someone ask: 'if it is so bad here, why are people still dying to get in?'"
    my wife went on to make a point that went to the heart of the nation's move to the left that, no matter how awkwardly, michael moore is trying to exploit. many americans have forgotten how well off they are. they complain at the slightest pain, because they're told that virtually all their problems can and should be taken care of by a nanny state. most immigrants, on the other hand, know that the nanny state is a lie. they know that the more powerful a state becomes, the more liberties and choices they all lose. and that's why they flock to the u.s.
    and that's why immigrants may be the last bulwark against the growth of big government. not the kind of immigrants who come here illegally looking for a handout. but legal, driven, brave immigrants, who are willing to work hard and eventually eschew the kind of patronizing hand holding that seems to be coming back in vogue among politicians and pundits.
    as my wife says: "legal immigrants have backbone and don't feel sorry for themselves because they have to work hard. that's because we know the difference between working hard and having no job at all. we are not suckers when it comes to the false promises of politicians and hucksters like michael moore, and we appreciate freedom."
    michael may be reaching for the heart of america. but i prefer to believe that my immigrant wife has a better idea of where it is.
    e-mail your comments to observer@foxnews.com
    david asman is the host of "forbes on fox" which airs on the fox news channel, saturdays at 11 a.m. et.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286006,00.html
  9. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from WhiteKnight
    This scene was either set up by one of Moore's Cuban "minders," or Moore was a party to a fabricated scene.

    Which is EXACTLY what many of us object to in MM's mindset . . . . his movies have been shown to contain fabricated scenes and outright lies.

    Why?

    steph
  10. by   kenny b
    Quote from spacenurse
    Not me, I want the explicit right to speak my opinion.

    But I do think we need to improve our healthcare.
    Perhaps teach personal responsibility.
    I did some nutrition teaching in public schoold in 1999. Nurses and dieticians taught high school volunteers to teach 2nd, 4th, and 6th graders healthy eating.
    It was a team of two high schoolers and one health professional.

    I think the nurse in the neighborhood is a good idea. We need more PHN's but that will require people seeing the advantage in healthy living and modeling personal responsibility. There is not much profit in keeping people healthy. Especially teaching children good health habits that they can teach their children.
    I think the information is all there and available already. So are you saying that we need to "teach" people about healthy lifestyles, or are you saying we have to convince them or encourage them, or pressure them, or what?

    Surely we are bombarded with information about what is healthy and what is not. My mother goes to great effort and expense to make sure she has rice and soy milk, and various "natural," "healthy" foods. But you'd be hard pressed to find fresh fruits and veggies in her fridge. Just like you'd be hard pressed to find a significant number of people in the US who don't know that fresh fruits and veggies are better for you than processed foods (or that you can get a huge bang for your buck by simply walking 20 minutes a day - no big effort for most people).

    I know there's more to a healthy lifestyle than those basics, but when people won't even do that, I have to wonder how much mileage you'd get out of presenting the more complex nutrition lessons.

    Sure, you get an initial reaction (just like people who get religion after going to traffic school), but much like traffic school, things usually peter off. Surely I don't have to dig up data to back this up.
  11. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from jolie
    don't forget john edward's own role in the astronomical cost of health care in this country. i find it a little amusing that he fails to mention tort reform in his plan.
    tort costs are way overstated as a cause of medical inflation see:

    there are, of course, plenty of things wrong with the civil justice system. it has high "transaction" costs, meaning money that should go to victims is eaten up by lawyers and others, but worst of all, it is haphazard. in 1991 a harvard university study of medical malpractice in new york state found an unexpectedly high rate of medical accidents. however, few of even the most serious "mishaps" resulted in lawsuits, and there was no correlation between severity and litigation.
    carl bogus, a law professor at roger williams university, argues that what plaintiff's lawyers do best is regulate, a role that has become more and more vital as government's watchdog function has shrunk under conservative attack. bogus notes that while asbestos caused 170,000 deaths from lung cancer, the environmental protection agency was never able to ban it. lawsuits forced it from the market.
    ...
    "if someone's been a victim of medical malpractice, to like say, oh, but gee, aren't you lucky because you get to bring a medical malpractice lawsuit! it's like, well thank you very much, i'd much rather that it never happened at all," says gilbert.
    ...
    on the tort reform side, the numbers tell a story of squandered dollars. the $809 "tort tax" was invented by taking $233 billion, which is what insurance industry consultant tillinghast-towers perrin says is the cost of the tort system, and dividing it by the population of the united states. but those billions represent not only legal expenses but the total cost of running the insurance industry, including executive salaries, advertising expenditures and much else unrelated to lawsuits. the real figure is probably less than half that amount.
    the numbers game misses the point, because while the plaintiff's lawyer is indeed an american creation, billions would still have to be spent to compensate and care for victims even if the tort system were abolished. the legal systems of france, germany, japan, australia and other wealthy countries forbid most personal-injury actions, ban contingent fees and require the loser to pay the winner's expenses, making suits by individuals against corporations impossible. instead, national healthcare or other compensation schemes cover those hurt in any kind of accident. in japan, a special industry fund covers air-pollution victims; another pays for injuries caused by pharmaceuticals. "in some sense it's because of the thinness of our welfare state and the kind of fragmentation of authority in this country that we just do more with the civil courts," says marc galanter, a law professor at the university of wisconsin.
    http://www.thenation.com/doc/20041025/zegart/6
  12. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from stevielynn
    "RN's" do not all agree on the problems and solutions - we are not a monolith.

    I do know about Ted Kennedy. I disagree with him.

    I do not support a universal system of healthcare.

    steph
    How would you fix the problem?

    In other words, a progressive is someone who is idealistic enough to believe that things can be better and pragmatic enough to get it done.
    http://www.americanprogress.org/aboutus
    Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Jun 24, '07
  13. by   mvanz9999
    Quote from stevielynn
    Which is EXACTLY what many of us object to in MM's mindset . . . . his movies have been shown to contain fabricated scenes and outright lies.

    Why?

    steph
    My point exactly.

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