This is how much ER doctors are making

ExPharmaGirl, BSN, RN · Nov 9, 2012

Good for them! If anyone wants to make the salary of a doctor go be a doctor.

BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN · Nov 9, 2012

I believe BlueDevil is actually getting paid the same as they physicians in her practice.

I do have the same base and bonus earning potential as my physician colleagues, yes, but I assure you, none of us is earning $200 an hour. :no:

In reply to Tim, do I think that the work of a NP or PA is worth 1/3 of that of a physician in the ED? No, 1/3 is low. I don't know anything about the ED described in the recruitment ad you quoted. The volumes make it sound like moderate traffic, but who knows what type of traffic that is. Are they all gun shot wounds, lol? Generally speaking, if they have all of the same responsibilities and skills, no, of course the disparity should not be that great. However, in my experience that isn't often the case. Most of the time in the ED the duties appear to be porificed out differently between NPs/PAs and physicians, with the more complex medical patients and traumas being seen by the physician providers and the NPs and PAs seeing the bulk of the lower acuity complaints. If the risk and work load aren't the same, no, I don't have any problem at all with the physician being very well compensated for taking the more challenging cases. That is as it should be, I think. Exactly as the system should work. I think in specialty practice, like emergency medicine, physicians should easily expect to make twice what the NPs do. Three times seems excessive, but twice is reasonable. And they should obviously be seeing the most complex patients. Those are the patients they want, and those are the patients appropriate to be sending up to them. There is no point in wasting their time with patients that don't require their skill set. It isn't efficient or necessary.

I'd also add that we need to keep in mind that there is a world of difference between academic university medical centers, regional medical centers, community hospitals, critical access hospitals and those remote 4 bed "emergency departments" with no one but a nurse to triage and a provider on call 10 minutes away. Not all emergency rooms are created equally, and I cannot sit here and say that every member of every team should have parity in every instance. There are just too many variables. The NP doing it all himself in a one man show ED? Sure, he has all the responsibility and liability and ought to be paid accordingly. He isn't a board certified emergency residency trained physician, so the salary is going to reflect that, but neither should it be the same as the unfortunate soul relegated to doing nothing more than fast track AOM and splinter removal.

My company decided to pay us the same because they decided #1 we do the same work, #2 it would be a motivator to strive for the bonus dollars. And when we go for those, we earn the company mad mad money, lol. This is a for profit enterprise. It's a carrot, obviously. It is an umbrella consortium, owned collectively by the providers. The more we earn, the more we all make. We all bought in, we all take out. Rising tides, etc. Work hard, see many patients, earn more money. Work less, take life a bit easier, earn less money. Choose your lifestyle. Base pay same, earning potential highly variable depending primarily upon productivity, a bit upon outcomes, and a tiny percentage on patient satisfaction also factored in someplace. I got killed on this last one last quarter; one patient gave me terrible scores because the bathroom was out of toilet paper, lol. I felt that score should have been thrown out because the accompanying comments made it clear their dissatisfaction was unrelated to their care, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. That shred of toilet paper cost me about $6,000.

tigerlogic · Nov 9, 2012

I mean, pick your poison. If you want to make doctor's wages and do a doctor's job, go study to be a doctor. Is that crazy amounts of money? yes. Is it probably a hard position to fill? yes. They say money can buy you happiness up to $70K per year but then it's downhill from the stress. Though... at $250/hr, you'd only need to work 28 ten hour days for that $70K.

Music in My Heart · Nov 9, 2012

Bluedevil, yes, I am surprised a little. Considering how we add to the team and make what? 1/3? Are we doing 1/3 the work? I understand they have more responsibilities, but 1/3? Well, who ever said life was fair?

Of course it's fair...

It's very easy to find nurses, it can be a real challenge to find boarded docs. Simple supply and demand.

That doesn't even consider the huge disparity in required preparation, level of responsibility, or authority.

4:1-8:1 sounds about right for the attendings at our trauma center.

Music in My Heart · Nov 9, 2012

I got killed on this last one last quarter; one patient gave me terrible scores because the bathroom was out of toilet paper, lol. I felt that score should have been thrown out because the accompanying comments made it clear their dissatisfaction was unrelated to their care, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. That shred of toilet paper cost me about $6,000.

Man, that's some pricey TP.

Probably ought to swing by Costco and keep a couple rolls in your locker, just in case :-)

{I laugh because TP is a huge issue in our ED and they just don't stock much... pt's are usually given a box of Kleenex when we bring in the commode}

Music in My Heart · Nov 9, 2012

Though... at $250/hr, you'd only need to work 28 ten hour days for that $70K.

'course, they won't give you the $250 per if you're only going to pull 28 shifts per year :-)

BostonTerrierLover, BSN, RN · Nov 18, 2012

Write down the 10 most precious, proud, and happy moments in your life. Then see how many of them directly involve $$$.

That's why I chose FNP after my dual BSN/BS. Just like nursing, I would hope they went because they wanted to be Physicians, otherwise- their not the MD/DO's you want to be working with. I had friends go the Med Route, trust me(and their heart was right), they married their job. I know there is some balance- I also know it's just "some." I know Nursing still has some kinks to work out, but with all the griping and complaining we do- we got it good in many ways:)

I was blown away to find out a 30 yr Veteran NREMT-P's salary yesterday at a large Intercity EMS(I thought he was joking/awkward moment)!

PRICHARILLAisMISSED · Nov 19, 2012

Write down the 10 most precious, proud, and happy moments in your life. Then see how many of them directly involve $$$.
That's why I chose FNP after my dual BSN/BS. Just like nursing, I would hope they went because they wanted to be Physicians, otherwise- their not the MD/DO's you want to be working with. I had friends go the Med Route, trust me(and their heart was right), they married their job. I know there is some balance- I also know it's just "some." I know Nursing still has some kinks to work out, but with all the griping and complaining we do- we got it good in many ways:)
I was blown away to find out a 30 yr Veteran NREMT-P's salary yesterday at a large Intercity EMS(I thought he was joking/awkward moment)!

Oh, GOD!... Out here (VEGAS), AMR tries to start Paramedics out at $14/hr. It is usually negotiated up to $16, but that's still incredibly low. I've looked at the Paramedic degree sheet at my local college, and no disrespect to nurses but it is at least as tough as the ADN degree sheet. And their dept head is a real SC@#bag too! How's that for a slap in the face after taking 2.5 years to get a degree. I have an ex who makes $16/hr taking drive through orders at In-N-Out.

Iridescence · Jan 5, 2013

ER MDs in San Francisco make 205-250,000/yr

ER NPs make 60-80/hr (roughly 1/2 the pay)

IndiCRNA · Jan 5, 2013

ER MDs in San Francisco make 205-250,000/y

LOL! Seriously?