Now I get why experience means everything yet nothing - page 6

Now I finally get why nursing experience can prove invaluable in NP school, yet actually means nothing. It appears that nursing experience gives a valuable base from which to relate but does... Read More

  1. Visit  bsnanat2 profile page
    1
    mindlor,
    While I appreciate your enthusiasm for your viewpoint, I would highly recommend cooling your jets a little. No institution of higher learning is capable of preparing anyone for everything and there certainly are many-a-fool walking around with some serious sheepskins hanging on the wall. Be careful not to put too much weight on the formal education as lots of this stuff is still intuition, "critical thinking" and just plain old "I've seen this before." Thank your professors but bow to your elders.
    Just my two cents.
    SHGR likes this.
  2. Get the hottest topics every week!

    Subscribe to our free Nursing Insights newsletter.

  3. Visit  coast2coast profile page
    7
    First and foremost, a million THANK YOU's to the OP for being brave enough to dare defend DE-NPs on this site. There is so much hate & misunderstanding when this topic comes up on AN that I think most of us DE-NPs try to fly under the radar here.

    Quote from Guttercat
    I'm currently deciding between PA vs ANP route. I've been an RN for 19 years.

    It just torques me off that I spent all these years in the trenches... and for what?
    Guttercat, I think your response is a good example of how DE-NPs are misunderstood by nursing as a whole. Defending DE-NPs as safe and intelligent practitioners is not meant to suggest that RN experience is worthless or that it doesn't contribute to you becoming an excellent NP. One type of NP does not have to be better than another.


    When I meet a 'traditional' NP who worked bedside before moving on - I assume that his/her bedside experience influences their NP practice. But most on AN seem to assume that a DE-NP has zero applicable experience that might help similarly in their professional development. There is more than one way to skin a cat ... there is more than one way to learn critical thinking and humanistic interaction than by bedside RN experience. The success of DE-NPs supports that (to whoever said DE-NPs have trouble with employment ... anecdotally I have seen the opposite - where are you and what kind of research is supporting that?)

    Quote from zenman
    Handing out meds at Walgreens means a lot more of you've followed patients daily at the bedside and observed their daily response. The dean's opinion means little as she probably never worked on the floor prior to becoming a NP. Now, if she wants to go head to head with a nurse who had 37 years of experience prior to becoming an NP, I'll be waiting.
    With all due respect, you have no idea what kind of meaning I as a DE-NP derive from "handing out meds at walgreens" without having followed patients as a bedside RN. See my above paragraph ... I believe you when you say that your RN experience helped your NP development - but it's a bit egotistical to think that ONLY that type of experience gives rise to a good NP. We recently took opposite sides in the online education debate - I'll try to let go of my personal bias against online education if you can conceive of a safe NP without bedside RN experience. At the end of the day I think both of our opinions arise out of general ignorance and not malicious intent.

    I would love to see a change in the general attitude surrounding DE-NPs on AN.
    jyager, ImThatGuy, Gator Girl 2000, and 4 others like this.
  4. Visit  nurseaig profile page
    2
    bsnanat2. I totally agree with u. U hit the nail on the head.
    SHGR and Psychcns like this.
  5. Visit  SHGR profile page
    0
    Quote from bsnanat2
    I actually think that many of the views here are not that far apart. First of all, I personally think that SOME bedside experience is important and necessary, but due to the difference in the RN vs NP roles, bedside experience is not CRITICAL. This is a new viewpoint for me. Remember, only a fool never changes. Some people, depending upon how they learn, their level of confidence, and how their undergrad nursing program taught, need more or less bedside experience…… depending upon the person. Yes, I think direct entry NP grads are at a disadvantage, but we’d better get used to the idea. One thing we all seem to keep forgetting is that years ago, many years of bedside nursing were required to reach the level of knowledge necessary to step into the NP role. Now, many things that could only be learned by experience are taught in undergrad BSN programs….the knowledge base has grown, so the timeline to reach “expert” status has shortened. This does not mean that newer NP’s are smarter than previous ones or that newer NP’s lack “respect” for the hard work of the past, but that newer NP’s simply have the benefit of this larger knowledge base. The other thing forgotten here is that time and experience mean nothing if the person involved makes no use of it. How many RN’S do you know who only do the minimum required by law to keep a license, thus making them near incompetent or just downright dangerous? On the other hand, there are CNA’s and LPN’s who constantly read, listen, question and research and have grown tremendously in their knowledge base but will never be able to be NP’s. Which do you think is better: A fresh BSN RN who spends one to three years asking questions, researching and absorbing knowledge OR twenty years of someone who just punches a clock, follows the orders on the chart and occasionally picks up a few gems here and there? I have my own ideas as to why nurses (and thus NP’s) in-fight and backbite more than PA’s or MD’s, but I’ll save that for another thread.
    Again, I think much angst comes from people making the wrong choices to further their careers. The other issue is that those of us here who “have put in the work” can’t get upset at those who benefit from that larger knowledge base and those of us who gain that benefit can not forget to be respectful and thankful of those whose work in trenches made our path shorter.
    The above, like x1000. Thanks for articulating this. Direct entry will work for some people. It would not have worked for me. I have learned something in every area of nursing that I've carried with me. All my bedside and direct patient care experiences are enhancing my MSN education in ways I could not have anticipated when I was in undergrad in the early 90's. It will enhance my APN practice too. Practice knowledge IS nursing knowledge, along with theory and research.
  6. Visit  Psychcns profile page
    1
    Great OP. Great perspective. Thanks for posting. I went back to staff nursing (travel-psych) after a few years of advanced practice. I was relieved to not have to worry about diagnosis and meds though I would think about them. Now I am back to being a provider 15 min visits, etc. The staff nurse foundation for me is invaluable. I have no problem with direct entry or with pa programs. We all take care of patients.
    SHGR likes this.
  7. Visit  mindlor profile page
    0
    Quote from bsnanat2
    mindlor,
    While I appreciate your enthusiasm for your viewpoint, I would highly recommend cooling your jets a little. No institution of higher learning is capable of preparing anyone for everything and there certainly are many-a-fool walking around with some serious sheepskins hanging on the wall. Be careful not to put too much weight on the formal education as lots of this stuff is still intuition, "critical thinking" and just plain old "I've seen this before." Thank your professors but bow to your elders.
    Just my two cents.

    First I am a soon to be new RN at 48 years old. So I think age has little to do with this equation. And yes I get passionate about this topic, expecially when folks who obviously have done no research on their own start popping off......

    Anyway, you have summed it up nicely. Thank you.
  8. Visit  nomadcrna profile page
    3
    NP, according to the American College of Nurse Practioners, Pearson report. 27 states allow totally independent practice.

    I know that there are PA owned practices. I have a good friend that has one in Montana. But the fact remains, you still MUST have a collaborative physician and their involvement varies according to state law.
    I support PA independent practice. I also support their name change. I think it is just the physicians wanting control and money from the PAs. This is the same reason they fight tooth and nail against NP/CRNAs.
    But the fact remains that NPs are making great strides every year. This past year have 3 more states become independent. With the current climate in health care, more will follow.
    I thin NPs and PAs should band together to fight for legislative changes.

    The 2012 Pearson Report: A National Overview of Nurse
    Practitioner Legislation and Health Care Issues
    By
    Linda Pearson DNSc MSN APRN,BC FAANP

    For the past 24 years I have annually written a Report summarizing national nurse practitioner (NP) legislation - a Report that has wide dissemination, discussion, and utilization promoting NP legislation. Readers appreciate the concise information format including the state-by-state review of pertinent legislation, rules and regulations that impact NPs, and the government, policy and reimbursement information. For the cost of four to five gourmet coffees, anyone on the web can access the complete summary status of NP legislation, available at http://www.webnponline.com .

    HIGHLIGHTS OF '2012 PEARSON REPORT' COMPILED DATA
    Within the following “bulleted highlights” are some interesting compilations from the 2012 Pearson Report:


    • The number of NPs within our nation is now more than 180,000 (see 2012 Summary Table). This number of NPs is incredibly good news for the citizens of our country since nurse practitioners are powerfully important health care providers who are helping our nation to improve healthcare outcomes and lower healthcare costs.
    • There is NO requirement for any physician involvement in NP Diagnosing and Treating in TWENTY SEVEN STATES (See MAP – DX/TX – an “Overview of Diagnosing and Treating Aspects of Nurse Practitioner Practice”). This number has INCREASED by three states from last year’s Report!!!!!!



    Quote from Guttercat

    "Many states?"
    How many exactly? Correct me if I'm wrong but the last account I read put it at less than ten states, as "independent pratice" and "scope of practice" have very different implications.

    Btw, PA's can and do, own their own practices under the "supervision" (cough cough), of an MD...fuzzy lines drawn in the ever- shifting sands of legal interpretation.

    And I agree, one is not "better" than the other.
    Link: http://www.pearsonreport.com/
    Last edit by NRSKarenRN on Mar 18, '12 : Reason: Added link
    Guttercat, coast2coast, and mindlor like this.
  9. Visit  mindlor profile page
    1
    Thank you nomad. It warms my heart when I see people doing their own research and thinking for themselves.

    Excellent, informative post.
    Guttercat likes this.
  10. Visit  myelin profile page
    5
    I don't think anyone is saying that RN experience doesn't count or isn't useful, just that people from other backgrounds have a lot to offer as well.
  11. Visit  Guttercat profile page
    0
    Quote from nomadcrna
    NP, according to the American College of Nurse Practioners, Pearson report. 27 states allow totally independent practice.

    I know that there are PA owned practices. I have a good friend that has one in Montana. But the fact remains, you still MUST have a collaborative physician and their involvement varies according to state law.
    I support PA independent practice. I also support their name change. I think it is just the physicians wanting control and money from the PAs. This is the same reason they fight tooth and nail against NP/CRNAs.
    But the fact remains that NPs are making great strides every year. This past year have 3 more states become independent. With the current climate in health care, more will follow.
    I thin NPs and PAs should band together to fight for legislative changes.

    The 2012 Pearson Report: A National Overview of Nurse Practitioner Legislation and Health Care Issues By Linda Pearson DNSc MSN APRN,BC FAANP
    For the past 24 years I have annually written a Report summarizing national nurse practitioner (NP) legislation - a Report that has wide dissemination, discussion, and utilization promoting NP legislation. Readers appreciate the concise information format including the state-by-state review of pertinent legislation, rules and regulations that impact NPs, and the government, policy and reimbursement information. For the cost of four to five gourmet coffees, anyone on the web can access the complete summary status of NP legislation, available at http://www.webnponline.com .
    HIGHLIGHTS OF '2012 PEARSON REPORT' COMPILED DATA
    Within the following “bulleted highlights” are some interesting compilations from the 2012 Pearson Report:

    • The number of NPs within our nation is now more than 180,000 (see 2012 Summary Table). This number of NPs is incredibly good news for the citizens of our country since nurse practitioners are powerfully important health care providers who are helping our nation to improve healthcare outcomes and lower healthcare costs.
    • There is NO requirement for any physician involvement in NP Diagnosing and Treating in TWENTY SEVEN STATES (See MAP – DX/TX – an “Overview of Diagnosing and Treating Aspects of Nurse Practitioner Practice”). This number has INCREASED by three states from last year’s Report!!!!!!
    Thank you. Excellent information!

    Very helpful to me as I muddle along through the learning process.
  12. Visit  mammac5 profile page
    4
    Quote from myelin
    I don't think anyone is saying that RN experience doesn't count or isn't useful, just that people from other backgrounds have a lot to offer as well.
    Thank you. I've worked in healthcare (with some time out for various family priorities) for 20 years. I've worked as a Certified Medical Assistant in a clinical capacity, I've taught in medical assisting programs, I've worked in physician practice management, I've done transcription, etc. All of those experiences have been valuable to me in pursing my education and training as a nurse practitioner - and I continue to draw on those experiences daily as a nurse practitioner working in a hospital.

    I never worked a day as an RN. Some will insist that makes my patient care as a NP substandard; I saw all those years helped me become a well-rounded practitioner. Not one patient has ever asked me about nursing experience and, frankly, I don't think they care.
    Gator Girl 2000, myelin, BCgradnurse, and 1 other like this.
  13. Visit  sirI profile page
    0
    This particular subject never fails to generate passionate replies.

    In the past, every single thread on this subject has been closed due to TOS.......w/o fail.

    Please do not allow this thread to become a statistic, too.

    First and final warning.
  14. Visit  zenman profile page
    0
    Quote from mindlor
    I very clearly posted the contact information for the school. Feel free to give her a call. She can hold her own, I assure you.....
    Hopefully you don't agree with her! I'm going to start pulling out my checkbook and doing some betting!


Nursing Jobs in every specialty and state. Visit today and find your dream job.

Top