Interesting Physician Perspective On NPs - page 2
I am not an NP. I am a full time rapid response nurse at a teaching hospital. This morning I stopped in to residents office to update the night residents on what had happened with their patients and... Read More
Oct 25, '12Quote from Twinmom06Not true. PAs can prescribe any med a physician can prescribe (because the physician reviews their work). Whereas NPs are limited in what they can prescribe.I thought PA's didn't have prescriptive authority where NP's did?
I just went through a long, decision-making process on whether I wanted to become a PA or NP after I finish my BSN. I was originally leaning towards becoming a NP because the school is only 5 minutes from home. However, after speaking with quite a few NPs, PAs & physicians, it became evident (at least in the area where I live) that being a PA appeals to me more. I like the fact that they work in unity with the physicians. I like the fact that they are trained in med school. Most PAs in our area have taken over the role of GP physicians because there's such a huge lack of GPs coming out of medical school.
And just to clarify: while a PA may have a bachelor's degree in a non-scientific field before attending PA school, you are still required to complete what is essentially all the pre-reqs to get into a nursing program (e.g. Anatomy, Physiology, Chem, Micro, Stats, etc.) So it's not like Joe English Teacher just magically decides one day to become a PA and in 2 years is prescribing medicine. Most PA schools require you to have a certain number of patient care experience hours before you can even apply. The school I'm considering attending requires a minimum of 100 PCE hours, however the average student accepted into the program has at least 2,500 PCE hours. It's very competitive to get in. The school I would like to attend has PA students & med students in the same classes.
It all boils down to how the roles of each profession are viewed in your area. It's not going to be consistent from state to state (heck, even city to city, sometimes). I also noticed since the opportunity to become an NP in this area is so great (large university nearby), the market here is flooded with NPs. There's a bigger demand for PAs. Yet another reason why I'm choosing to go to PA school an hour away vs. NP school five minutes from home. I want to know I'll have a reasonable expectation of getting a job when I'm done with this expensive education
Oct 25, '12Really? I see a big difference between the 2. A PA can have any kind of Bachelors degree, and get their PA training in 2 years.
*** Or no bachelors degree and attend an associates degree or bachelors degree PA program.
A NP on the other hand has a BS or BA and a MSN and now more recently has to have a Doctorate in order to become a NP.
*** Or no bachelors degree and no DNP since neither are required to be an NP. A masterd degree is required to be an NP. There are a number of RN to MSN NP programs and DNP isn't required for NP anywhere.
And for the record the fact that a NP can practice independently as where a PA can only practice under a MD makes the NP role above the PA as far as I am concerned.
*** I suppose that is true but in my experience all NPs I have ever worked with worked in a goup that included all levels of providers.
Oct 25, '12Quote from cardiacrocks*** (sigh) No it won't be.I plan on receiving my DNP, It will be mandatory by 2015.
Oct 25, '12I don't know how much of a complement that is since we all know Physicians see nurses as inferior to them (and anyone else who isn't a MD for that matter).
Oct 25, '12Quote from cardiacrocksJust to be clear, the DNP isn't going to be mandatory by 2015.I plan on receiving my DNP, It will be mandatory by 2015.
Oct 25, '12Quote from Lynn2Not accurate, in 2 ways:Really? I see a big difference between the 2. A PA can have any kind of Bachelors degree, and get their PA training in 2 years. A NP on the other hand has a BS or BA and a MSN and now more recently has to have a Doctorate in order to become a NP. And for the record the fact that a NP can practice independently as where a PA can only practice under a MD makes the NP role above the PA as far as I am concerned.
1) NPs do not need a doctorate, nor is there any timeframe which says they will need one. I'm quite surprised regarding the misunderstanding RNs and others here have regarding this topic. It was recommended that by 2015 Master's training programs start to offer DNP. But there is absolutely no requirement. Amazing how people are continually confused by this
2) True, you can enter PA school with any degree, but most enter with a science degree. And here's why. The prerequisite list is very heavy! Heavier than medical school in many cases. Keep in mind, you can also enter medical school with any degree. Here is the prereq list from my PA school:
Human anatomy* 4 Biochemistry Human physiology* 4 Cellular biology Genetics 3 Human sexuality Psychology 3 Immunology General chemistry* 8 Organic chemistry* 4 Pharmacology Microbiology* 4 Spanish College algebra or higher 3 Statistics
Let us strive for accuracy when making comments. We would only expect the same when taking care of patients.Last edit by treejay on Oct 25, '12
Oct 25, '12Quote from Twinmom06On the contray, PAs have prescriptive authority in 50 states. Many of the states includes schedule II. Some states only schedule 3 and above. What is the state laws for NPs and scheulde IIs?I thought PA's didn't have prescriptive authority where NP's did?
Oct 25, '12Quote from PMFB-RNAmazing all the misinformation is out there about this, especially by people posting on this board.*** (sigh) No it won't be.
Oct 25, '12Quote from NovoA few pharmacology courses? How about:Personally I think NPs are less knowledgeable than PA's. PA school is essentially medschool-lite whereas NP's take a few pharmacology courses and some. Just my opinion though.
1. Major psychopathological disorders
4. Diagnosis and Management I
5. Diagnosis and Management II
6. Physical Diagnosis
7. Psych/Mental Health NP-Adult
8. Psych/Mental Health NP-Adult
9. Advanced pathophysiology I
10. Advanced pathophysiology II
11. Therapeutic Group Process
12. Community Mental Health I
13. Community Mental Health Nursing II
14. Human Values and Health Care
15. Research in Nursing
16. Theories of Personality
17. Social Forces and Nursing Practice
18. Theoretical Foundations of Role Specialization
Oct 25, '12Quote from treejayMy DEA is for schedule 2-5.On the contray, PAs have prescriptive authority in 50 states. Many of the states includes schedule II. Some states only schedule 3 and above. What is the state laws for NPs and scheulde IIs?
Oct 25, '12Quote from zenmanOf course. As is mine for PAs and NPs. But what is the outlook overall for all 50 states?My DEA is for schedule 2-5.
Oct 25, '12Quote from PMFB-RNAlright, already, I stand corrected, sorry for being wrong. It is strongly recommended but has not been mandated. I researched this more and found I had misspoken, sorry to have been misinformed.*** (sigh) No it won't be.
Oct 25, '12PAs follow the physician model, NPs follow the nursing model. A PA needs a master's and PA school whereas the NP needs a MSN and NP schooling. NPs actually have more education than PAs do, yet in my state PAs could write scripts years before NPs could. NPs can operate independently where PAs can't. I worked with a MD who trusted his PA enough to let him see new pts, preop visits and postop followups, order testing and do CT reviews. Another MD I worked for would only let his NP see established followups and she couldn't order allergy testing or tests beyond CT sinus or CXR. A lot of it depends on the doc. Both the PA and NP I've worked with were great!!