Advanced Nursing Lacking "Medical Science"

[matthewandrew, NP]

Advanced Nursing is often considered less rigorous than Medicine even though Nursing is it's own profession. Of course there's overlap. Do you think it's because nursing doesn't require the same rigorous premed perquisites?Osteopathic medicine use to be regarded the same well, but now it is equivalent to allopathic medicine. Do you think requiring the premed prerequisite curriculum (eg: PA, DO, MD prereqs) to gain entry to advanced practice will better prepare advanced practice nursing clinicians?

Thank you in advance for answering. :)

Matthew Andrew, BSN RN

[futureeastcoastNP]

It's because rather than increasing standards for admissions, we're decreasing them, allowing online for profit schools with no admissions standards to open. Osteopathic schools, while easier than MD schools to get into, are still very difficult to gain admission to. They still require the MCAT, an interview, and many science prereqs. There are FNP schools with barely any requirements, no interview, no admissions exams, and the entire thing is completed online. It is the support that those schools widely receive in the nursing community that make people see NP programs as less rigorous. As I've said on this forum numerous times, if someone gets into medical school they are perceived as intelligent and driven. If one gets into NP school, no one even sees it as an accomplishment. There are too many programs taking too many students and they have few barriers to entry - someone of quite low intelligence can attend and graduate from an NP program. The same cannot be said of medical school, MD or DO.

So yes, I think the lack of hard science prereqs, along with many other things, is one reason NP school is seen as less rigorous. I think requiring these types of prereqs, as well as admissions tests, would help building stronger NP students. The problem is that for most schools the NP program is nothing more than a cash cow and the goal is to collect tuition money, not build a strong class.

[zenman]

You only need the same rigorous premed prerequisites if, hold on now…you're going to medical school.

[zenman]

It's because rather than increasing standards for admissions, we're decreasing them, allowing online for profit schools with no admissions standards to open. Osteopathic schools, while easier than MD schools to get into, are still very difficult to gain admission to. They still require the MCAT, an interview, and many science prereqs. There are FNP schools with barely any requirements, no interview, no admissions exams, and the entire thing is completed online. It is the support that those schools widely receive in the nursing community that make people see NP programs as less rigorous. As I've said on this forum numerous times, if someone gets into medical school they are perceived as intelligent and driven. If one gets into NP school, no one even sees it as an accomplishment. There are too many programs taking too many students and they have few barriers to entry - someone of quite low intelligence can attend and graduate from an NP program. The same cannot be said of medical school, MD or DO.

So yes, I think the lack of hard science prereqs, along with many other things, is one reason NP school is seen as less rigorous. I think requiring these types of prereqs, as well as admissions tests, would help building stronger NP students. The problem is that for most schools the NP program is nothing more than a cash cow and the goal is to collect tuition money, not build a strong class.

I wish I could have found a completely online program. Get me one of those rolling robot things while sitting at home with my controls in my hands. Just roll that baby into a patient's room, hollering "knock, knock" cause my robot has no hands to knock with. "Good morning, Mrs. Jones. Can you roll over and pull up your gown cause I need to do a DRE. "Ok put a glove on and stick your longest finger deep inside there and tell me what you feel."

[BostonFNP, APRN]

Advanced Nursing is often considered less rigorous than Medicine even though Nursing is it's own profession. Of course there's overlap. Do you think it's because nursing doesn't require the same rigorous premed perquisites?Osteopathic medicine use to be regarded the same well but now it is equivalent to allopathic medicine. Do you think requiring the premed prerequisite curriculum (eg: PA, DO, MD prereqs) to gain entry to advanced practice will better prepare advanced practice nursing clinicians? Thank you in advance for answering. :) Matthew Andrew, BSN RN[/quote']

Is this for an assignment?

I come from a background of premedical requisites and I found them helpful in both school and practice; I am not sure they are essential to it, as I know several colleagues with out them that I think are excellent providers.

My argument would be: show some data that demonstrates the medical model (and thus pre-requisites) result in improved outcomes.

[TheOldGuy]

LOL!! Too funny!

[matthewandrew, NP]

I don't know why some nurses are so hostile to more education. The truth is, no profession should be stagnant. To advance nursing, we should look at what's working and what's not. Medicine, Dentistry, Pharmacy, Optometry, etc utilize similar premed prerequisites... and they seem to maintain the rigor and caliber some advanced nursing programs lack. There's nothing wrong with looking at what other professions do, especially out other health science counterparts to improve the profession.

This isn't the hot topic... but very important to address.

Matthew Andrew, BSN RN

[matthewandrew, NP]

You only need the same rigorous premed prerequisites if, hold on now...you're going to medical school.

Or if you're going to pharmacy school... or dentistry... or PA... or optometry... or veterinary... or any other health science...

We all know nursing is it's own distinct profession. But advanced practice nursing roles and responsibilities are often similar if not the same with our physician counterparts. Why not have the same foundation PLUS our nursing background?

Matthew Andrew, BSN RN

[BCgradnurse, MSN, RN, NP]

I don't believe nurses are hostile to more education at all. ANPs have to do continuing education to keep our board certification current. I know many NPS who participate in research, and many more who voluntarily continue to read and study to keep their skills and knowledge current.

I think what bugs some of us (or at least me), are people who have not practiced a single day as an NP coming on here and telling us what is wrong with our profession. We became NPs because this is the way we want to practice-not because we're MD wannabes and couldn't get into med school. I considered getting into my NP program a pretty big accomplishment, and so did everyone I know.

[matthewandrew, NP]

No one is denying your accomplishment. And just because we haven't practiced as NPs, we can't have an opinion regarding the direction of the profession? That is just backwards thinking.

Matthew Andrew, BSN RN

[BostonFNP, APRN]

No one is denying your accomplishment. And just because we haven't practiced as NPs we can't have an opinion regarding the direction of the profession? That is just backwards thinking. Matthew Andrew, BSN RN[/quote']

Anyone can have an opinion.

Opinions without perspective should be taken with a grain of salt is all.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

To advance nursing we should look at what's working and what's not. [/quote']

Enlighten us.

What is working and what is not from your experience? From the literature?

This might help focus the responses you receive.