Ill prepared managers... Ill prepared managers... - pg.2 | allnurses

Ill prepared managers... - page 3

I am trying to find a way to express this concern without sounding critical. So well, here it goes... How come it seems as if so many nurse managers are randomly selected as managers with no... Read More

  1. Visit  mydesygn profile page
    0
    Quote from CseMgr1
    Tenured incompetence, eh?
    over 20 years of tenured incompetence, actually
  2. Visit  dinkymouse profile page
    0
    Our LTC recently started the nurse manager positions. Both nurses were from in house. 1 is excellent at the organization, helping and the rest. If there is a problem with your work she explains how it needs to be done in a manner that you don't feel stupid. She understands that there are times when not everything can be done in 8 hours and that you sometimes have to leave things for the next shift. The other one is authoratative in a way that rubs us the wrong way. You can say 1 sentence a different number of ways, still get your point across and not demean or antagonize your staff. If you politely tell me something needs done before I leave I don't have a problem but ordering me to do it just sets my fire up. Yelling at me because something wasn't done the day before also doesn't benefit anyone especially if I wasn't even there. She wrote me up today and I deserved it but don't discuss it with staff it shouldn't concern. When I ask for advice don't tell me to figure it out myself. I have only been here for about 7 weeks and everyday I find out something I should have been doing that I wasn't taught or had no clue needed done. I can't do assessments on 6 patients at 1 time and also pass meds, do tx's and note orders. I guess I feel bummed today. Not about the write up just being made to feel stupid about other things.
  3. Visit  Daytonite profile page
    0
    Quote from bluesky
    how come it seems as if so many nurse managers are randomly selected as managers with no formal education or experience?
    nurses get promoted to management for a number of reasons. yes, being liked and respected by the rest of the staff is seen as one reason. management saw them as good managers of their job as a staff nurse. one of the big reasons, however, i haven't seen anyone mention yet.

    [font=courier new]they wanted the management job.

    no one takes you by the arm and forces you into those positions. some nurses make it known to their bosses that they are interested in a leadership position and so management looks to them first if they think they are qualified. when the bosses are looking to fill a management position and they don't know of anyone who is interested, they sometimes start making inquiries of the current staff. that is how some people who are not ready for those positions get into them. you also have to take into account the fact that not all administrators are good judges of character. if you ever have the chance to hire people you will find that you never know how someone is going to work out in a position. this is why a person in a newly appointed position needs to be monitored closely and maintained in a probationary status until they prove themselves.

    management is a skill just like anything else. true, some people possess what seems to be a natural ability for it, but like any other professional endeavor there are principles and techniques to master. unless a newly appointed supervisor/manager is oriented and educated to learn these skills their situation is not much different than that of new grads thrown into their first jobs without proper guidance and preceptoring. in one case, the patients become the unwitting victims; in the other, the staff are the victims.
  4. Visit  JMP profile page
    0
    reminds me of the debate "are leaders born or made?"
    answer: both
    many of us have born leadership skills....however it is a skill like any other skill and you need educaiton and practice. every single day you need to practice good leadership skills and your leadership will grow.

    however, some people have not been educated in leadership skills and still think that yelling, intimidating and demanding are acceptable leadership traits. memo: they are not.

    the nursing shortage is bad enough. we need to foster, encourage and support clinical nurses....nothing else is acceptable.


    Quote from daytonite
    nurses get promoted to management for a number of reasons. yes, being liked and respected by the rest of the staff is seen as one reason. management saw them as good managers of their job as a staff nurse. one of the big reasons, however, i haven't seen anyone mention yet.

    [font=courier new]they wanted the management job.

    no one takes you by the arm and forces you into those positions. some nurses make it known to their bosses that they are interested in a leadership position and so management looks to them first if they think they are qualified. when the bosses are looking to fill a management position and they don't know of anyone who is interested, they sometimes start making inquiries of the current staff. that is how some people who are not ready for those positions get into them. you also have to take into account the fact that not all administrators are good judges of character. if you ever have the chance to hire people you will find that you never know how someone is going to work out in a position. this is why a person in a newly appointed position needs to be monitored closely and maintained in a probationary status until they prove themselves.

    management is a skill just like anything else. true, some people possess what seems to be a natural ability for it, but like any other professional endeavor there are principles and techniques to master. unless a newly appointed supervisor/manager is oriented and educated to learn these skills their situation is not much different than that of new grads thrown into their first jobs without proper guidance and preceptoring. in one case, the patients become the unwitting victims; in the other, the staff are the victims.
  5. Visit  MrsWampthang profile page
    0
    Quote from mydesygn
    I have mixed feelings about the subject. I have worked in several hospitals where those promoted to management did not necessarily display exceptional communication, organzation or leadership abilities. They were clearly "well liked" which does not always translate to effective management. "well - liked" indiviuals do not always have the ability to make and enforce the hard decisions, they do not like confrontation and open communication and usually enable the same bad qualities in their staff, they are not always equipped to think long term and thoughtfully about an issues instead of merely react. They sometimes lack the ability to plan actions in steps and to set up systems that measure results. The qualities that make a great nurse do not make a great administrator.

    I beleive staff expectations feed bad management. One of the units I worked with was having a meeting regarding qualities they expected in a new manager - comments were she should be supportive, kind, nonjudgemental, "there for me" etc... Not one indivual said organized, competent, efficient etc.. I worked with one manager that I literally saw once a year but the unit was always stocked, my evaluations were timely and payroll was correct, the schedule was out on time. I think in the process of finding someone we like, we forget to look for someone we need

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think that you can't be liked and respected but personally I will take a manager I respect any day and your best managers understand that and are not afraid to live by that. I beleive the only way to resolve this is to hold managers to measurable criteria: staff turnover, budgetted supplies, patient survey results. Good managers know how to improve those areas and are willing to plan and implement realistic change to improve them.

    Bad management can destroy a unit and undermine morale. I hear a lot of complaints regarding "nursing eating their young" and rude or lazy co-workers. Your best employees recognize that no unit will be perfect but if it is clear that management is enabling and supporting those qualities, you will lose good staff and will be left with a unit filled with poor attitudes and low morale because management is knowingly and unknowingly enabling these indivuals. I am a manager and speak with the knowledge of how accountable we are to making a unit effective. I strongly beleive that outside candidates should be given strong consideration for management positions when there are clearly no qualified internal candidates. It helps to have someone with a track record as opposed to just the nurse who happens to have worke there the longest.
    Did you work on the same unit that I just left?!? You described the manager of the ED I came from to a "T" in spades. That unit has lost so many good nurses in the last few months due to this manager and her whiny, crybaby, tattletale contingent of a handful of nurses that you would think admin would catch on, especially since this is the second unit she has made a total mess of by being a really bad manager (in this same hospital). The first unit she was manager on, she was asked to step down due to complaints from so many of the nurses. Hopefully this time when it catches up with her she will either be fired or asked to resign, and know how she has made three of the most senior nurses feel that have left before her (one was actually the manager she replaced, so it is questionable how much she had to do with her leaving).

    I have to admit that the manager she replaced wasn't a good leader or manager. That manager was never around and was never available to address problems and was asked to resign by upper management. She has her CNS so she got a job right away. And the present manager who is making such a mess of the unit now, did do a good job turning moral around on the unit by being available and acting like she cared about her staff. Well, that didn't last. She managed to get a couple of her favorite witches into PCC positions, got a thirtyfive year PCC nurse fired, and got the education coordinator asked to resign, a nurse of probably the same amount of seniority time.
    The staff moral is totally demoralized now, with common comments about "don't trust anyone", "watch your back," "management doesn't back you up," "watch what you say." It's really sad. The doctors aren't happy because the nursing staff changes almost daily. Right now the ER has a lot nurses in orientation and not a whole lot of seasoned nurses or nurses that have worked ER before. There are many needs on this unit with OT okd and incentive pay offered. Only a handful of people will actually pick up the needs, assuring them a lot of OT on their paychecks every pay period.
    It's sad, which is why I wanted to transfer to another department, a statement that I made to this manager twice, and then she double crossed me and put it in that I had QUIT! The whole hospital!!!!! She left me with NO insurance, lost of 18 yrs seniority, and inability to be rehired due to resigning without notice. I know I should have filed fair treatment but no one that has done that has won so I just didn't see the use of going through that. Better that I just brush the dust of that hospital off my shoes and move on. Sorry this is so long, but I had to vent. Thanks for letting me!
    BTW, I wish I could come and work for you! You sound like a really great boss!

    Pam
  6. Visit  dinkymouse profile page
    0
    "Promoted well past the point of own incompetence. Fosters suspicion and backbiting to divert attention away from own poor managerial style."

    We have this exact same situation. The don has told us to quit complaining about her but something has to change or all of us are either going to quit or go crazy. She has set things she is supposed to do but always, (not generalizing) always assigns them to us. We are already swamped and doing her work is keeping us all there an hour or more extra. Instead of working with us to find solutions to problems on the unit she threatens with suspensions and disciplinary actions. She doesn't check her facts before accusing us of things and never apologizes when she is wrong. She has an office of her own but sits at the desk and we have no room to do our charting call doctors or anything. She left last night and when i returned to the desk there were charts open with unfinished orders in them. I thought at first she had just left to go to the bathroom. I looked at the orders to make sure there was nothing that needed done stat or had to do with medication orders and then just picked it all up put it in her cart and rolled it in front of her door. Can anyone give us suggestions on how to cope with her? We have tried to talk to her politley about how we feel, not accusingly but it seems as if she just doesn't listen. :angryfire
  7. Visit  mydesygn profile page
    0
    Quote from dinkymouse
    "Promoted well past the point of own incompetence. Fosters suspicion and backbiting to divert attention away from own poor managerial style."

    We have this exact same situation. The don has told us to quit complaining about her but something has to change or all of us are either going to quit or go crazy. She has set things she is supposed to do but always, (not generalizing) always assigns them to us. We are already swamped and doing her work is keeping us all there an hour or more extra. Instead of working with us to find solutions to problems on the unit she threatens with suspensions and disciplinary actions. She doesn't check her facts before accusing us of things and never apologizes when she is wrong. She has an office of her own but sits at the desk and we have no room to do our charting call doctors or anything. She left last night and when i returned to the desk there were charts open with unfinished orders in them. I thought at first she had just left to go to the bathroom. I looked at the orders to make sure there was nothing that needed done stat or had to do with medication orders and then just picked it all up put it in her cart and rolled it in front of her door. Can anyone give us suggestions on how to cope with her? We have tried to talk to her politley about how we feel, not accusingly but it seems as if she just doesn't listen. :angryfire
    Sometimes the unfortunate thing about complaining about a manager (or a co-worker for that matter) is if your complaints come across as "petty" they won't be taken seriously. With the exception of giving y'all her work to do, I would probably consider the reamaining issues rather petty. I bet that is what your DON is hearing as well. But don't get upset yet. The key to complaining effectiviely is to have solid, documented, objective and actionable issues. If you feel strongly about her abilities to do her job, you need to gather with your co-workers and begin (1) documenting specific occurrences (not feelings or generalizations) that have occurred . I have had employees come to me with "she nevers talks to anyone or she always gives bad report" . There is no way I can act on a generalization, I need specific dated examples. (2) Your sources should be varied not just 1 or 2 of you complaining, chances are if she is that bad, your nursing assistants are affected by it also (3) go through you chain of command first. That manager should have all your complaints in writing and have the opportunity to answer the issues, you should absolutely set up a meeting with the DON and the manager to discuss these issues. If you try to go above your DON's head with your complaints, they will look for whether you have tried to resolve this through the cahin of command.
  8. Visit  mydesygn profile page
    0
    Quote from dinkymouse
    "Promoted well past the point of own incompetence. Fosters suspicion and backbiting to divert attention away from own poor managerial style."

    We have this exact same situation. The don has told us to quit complaining about her but something has to change or all of us are either going to quit or go crazy. She has set things she is supposed to do but always, (not generalizing) always assigns them to us. We are already swamped and doing her work is keeping us all there an hour or more extra. Instead of working with us to find solutions to problems on the unit she threatens with suspensions and disciplinary actions. She doesn't check her facts before accusing us of things and never apologizes when she is wrong. She has an office of her own but sits at the desk and we have no room to do our charting call doctors or anything. She left last night and when i returned to the desk there were charts open with unfinished orders in them. I thought at first she had just left to go to the bathroom. I looked at the orders to make sure there was nothing that needed done stat or had to do with medication orders and then just picked it all up put it in her cart and rolled it in front of her door. Can anyone give us suggestions on how to cope with her? We have tried to talk to her politley about how we feel, not accusingly but it seems as if she just doesn't listen. :angryfire
    Sometimes the unfortunate thing about complaining about a manager (or a co-worker for that matter) is if your complaints come across as "petty" they won't be taken seriously. With the exception of giving y'all her work to do, I would probably consider the reamaining issues rather petty. I bet that is what your DON is hearing as well. But don't get upset yet. The key to complaining effectiviely is to have solid, documented, objective and actionable issues. If you feel strongly about her abilities to do her job, you need to gather with your co-workers and begin (1) documenting specific occurrences (not feelings or generalizations) that have occurred . I have had employees come to me with "she nevers talks to anyone or she always gives bad report" . There is no way I can act on a generalization, I need specific dated examples. (2) Your sources should be varied not just 1 or 2 of you complaining, chances are if she is that bad, your nursing assistants are affected by it also (3) go through you chain of command first. That manager should have all your complaints in writing and have the opportunity to answer the issues, you should absolutely set up a meeting with the DON and the manager to discuss these issues. If you try to go above your DON's head with your complaints, they will look for whether you have tried to resolve this through the chaiin of command. Often times a meeting with all the parties and 1 or 2 (non-emotional) nursing staff can be effective in getting the issues out in the open.
  9. Visit  boopchick profile page
    0
    However, some people have not been educated in leadership skills and still think that yelling, intimidating and demanding are acceptable leadership traits. Memo: they are not.

    Sounds like a manager I know.
  10. Visit  dinkymouse profile page
    0
    as "petty" they won't be taken seriously. With the exception of giving y'all her work to do, I would probably consider the reamaining issues rather petty.

    I agree that we need an united front and that is what we are doing, but I as for being petty, she has tried to write me up 2 times the third time is a suspension and the fourth firing. I don't consider losing my job because of her management skills as petty. Our don told me today they are just waiting til she does a major screw up so they can fire her. We are keeping documentation but staff morale is very low and we are all short with each other and are so on edge when she is around that the residents notice. PS they don't like her either.

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