Why do we eat our young?

Nurses Relations

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I'm a float pool nurse at my hospital so I bounce around, a lot. Wherever they need me, I go. So I'm pretty well known around the hospital, favorably, thank goodness. The past few months, I was pretty regular on one unit and had the pleasure of working closely with a new grad. I really like her. She was eager to learn, asked a lot of questions, optimistic, enthusiastic... You know, in the new nurse phase. She was good, really, really good at her skills. I guess I kind of took her under my wing while I was working on that unit. I didn't mind answering her questions. I applauded her for asking questions. Better ask than try to go it alone when you aren't sure what/how to do something and injure a patient, right?

Well, past few weeks I have been on another unit until this past weekend, I found myself back on her unit, only during the day shift. I was in the break room collecting my things at the end of my shift (happily I might add) when she walked in, looking both stressed to the gills yet a bit relieved at the same time. She immediately stated "OHHHH!!!!!! You're working here tonight!!!!!!!" And of course I was initially flattered that she was so happy that I might be working with her, but when I replied, "oh no, I'm leaving, I worked the day shift", her eyes immediately filled with tears and she just broke into sobs. Knowing that she would be eaten alive if anyone else seen this, I rushed to the breakroom door and locked it. I just wanted to give her that chance to get her cry out. The poor kid, went on to tell me that life had been hell on her unit. She felt like no one liked her, everyone got mad when she asked questions, and she felt thrown to the wolves. She was really hoping I was working because I had patience with her. She told me that she frequently heard the other nurses talking behind her back about how slow she is and that she doesn't take initiative to do anything on her own. Then she asked me the doomed question... "is it like this everywhere or just here?" and then she went on to say the statement so many new nurses say... "I HATE THIS JOB! I HATE BEING A NURSE!!!" and then she said, in a very defeated voice... "maybe I just wasn't meant to be a nurse, maybe I just suck at it". And my heart just broke. It broke wide open for her.

All I could do was console her. Put my arm around her and let her cry it out then reassure her that NO, you don't hate being a nurse. And YES, you are a GREAT nurse because you recognize when you need help and you are trying to seek it out... what makes you great is because you are thinking of the patient first, whether you realize it or not, you are putting your patient first because you don't want to do the wrong thing or make a mistake! That, to me, makes a phenomenal nurse. How in the world is a new nurse supposed to learn how to take innitiave if the new nurse can't ask for the help she needs out of fear of being ripped apart for it. Yes, we all need to be autonomous, but, we have to learn... I know we are all busy and all stressed, but come on, we've all been new nurses... We've all been there, why do some (not all) nurses forget where they came from and how they started?

I just had to get this out because my heart just broke for her. I hope I was able to console her enough and I pray she will not be one of the many new nurses that leave the profession after a year or so because of things like this... I just don't understand why we eat our young. Well, hopefully I helped and hopefully soon I'll be on her unit again. Hopefully she'll soon find her niche and she will prove to the world just how awesome of a nurse she is.

A couple years ago we had a new grad that asked a lot of questions. But was super sweet. Just so darn timid about everything. I worked with her a couple times, happy to answer questions. We worked different shifts at the time, but I would pick up her shift occasionally, and would do my best to help her out. Then one time I was working with her, and was SLAMMED with my own patients, and she asked a question, and I just wanted to scream, "OH MY GOODNESS! JUST MAKE A FREAKING DECISION!!"

We're too slammed with our own patients to always be sweet and nurturing to the new people. And honestly, there does come a time where you need to stop asking "permission" before every single thing you do. You've got to eventually figure it out for yourself. You really can ask TOO MANY QUESTIONS.

Anyway, I held it in, but probably sounded a bit curt in my answer. And she didn't take my curtness as an insult and immediately run around complaining about being bullied/eaten. And gained a new understanding of those that worked with her REGULARLY and were probably over it much quicker than it took me.

And she still works with us. Is a fabulous nurse in fact.

It's hard to be a new nurse. Even if everyone is sooooo nice and wonderful to you. It's not all about being nice to the new people and remembering what it was like when we were new. The new grad needs to realize, lives are in your hands, it's NOT all about you, everyone else is busy too.

I was a social worker in the trenches for many years. Social work, like nursing, is a high-stress female-dominated profession. My coworkers were my saving grace in that job. Even though the work was fast-paced and stressful, my coworkers provided each other with mutual support, almost without exception. The only unpleasant encounter I had was with a male psychologist a little too big for his britches. When I first heard about and then experienced nurse bullying it was in my first job as an aide in long term care. It was painful and shocking to experience it first-hand.

I believe lateral violence between nurses stems from powerlessness. When people feel valued and capable of changing things for the better, they are less likely to strike out at others. Also I believe that a culture that accepts this behavior is difficult to undo, once it is firmly established. It requires courage to speak out against the behavior in a helpful way, not making yourself a target needlessly, not placing blame, but somehow helping to change the culture that accepts the inevitability of lateral violence. Maybe it would mean going to the nurse manager and reporting what you are observing or experiencing without naming names, for starters. Just raising the awareness.

There was a time when sexual harrassment was tolerated in the workplace, and racial discrimination, too. Somehow we managed to overcome these evils because enough people refused to tolerate them.

My humble opinion.

Specializes in none yet.

"And honestly, there does come a time where you need to stop asking "permission" before every single thing you do." posted by Wooh.

Yes, I agree Wooh, and the orienting nurse needs to tell the new nurse that she no longer needs permission to do what the orientor knows the new nurse knows what to do. That is the whole purpose of orientation, IMHO - to gradually release the control on the new nurse. How many experienced nurses would do well with another nurse watching them all the time and telling them what they did wrong as soon as they did it? Come on, how many of us have gotten busy with a patient and missed turning a patient by 20 mins? But there is no other nurse fussing at them. Nope, we have all been there. But a new nurse might get bawled out or thought of as slacking if she does that.

Hospitals need to take responsibility for training vet orientors how to train newbies well. Private businesses train invest in training. Why not hospitals? Why should vets fuss at each other about how new nurses (whether new grads or new to the unit) are treated. The vet nurses need training. And that is the hospital's responsibility, IMHO.

Specializes in "Wound care - geriatric care.

The road to become a trained nurse is hard indeed. Backstabbing, poor training, no jobs, harsh corporate environments, mean nurses, angry patients, fears of making errors are a few of the pitfalls, still we keep going forward and I think that's big part of becoming...

Jreynrn, what a wonderful resource you have been for this new nurse. You sound like a truly nice individual. I always loved working with the float nurses, they were at the top of their game and stayed out of the gossip and just did their work.There is such a steep learning curve coming out of school that is a real shame that her preceptor or someone else on the unit is not there to offer guidance. I was so very lucky to have the best preceptor EVER. She asked me to use my resources and wouldn't tolerate being asked the same thing twice, but she was always there for guidance, opinions, help with finding resources, coming up with a brain sheet, and overall moral support. We became very close and I have so much respect for her as not only a nurse but also a person. I invited her to my wedding. From what you describe, it sounds like this new nurse is really trying hard and doing all she can. Maybe the unit is just a poor fit or maybe its too fast paced for a new grad? If the others in her unit continue this behavior, she will be damaged and leave the field which so sad.

Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
In the article the new grad talks about numerous ways she was treated...not just by her preceptor. I'm a new grad and a mature woman who has been thru many of life's experiences and done well in all of them. I have come across all kinds of personalities and rotten people in life. People can make up all kinds of excuses they want for the way things are and how they treat people. If you're a nurse, you are b/c you make that choice to be and stay with it. Why does that give you the right to treat people the way you do? Deal with your issues or get out! Many professions are stressful but to use it as an excuse to ok the way new grads are treated??? In the last year I had the same rotten experience as a new grad b/c of many things. I have never been treated so poorly and humiliated in my life. I'm a very hard worker and have always been. I have never needed my hand held and have always overcome tough obstacles to get to where I needed or wanted to be. I worked for a Magnet hospital for 5yrs and they never treated their new grads with such disrespect. Nurses are overworked b/c many places are short staffed but then you don't want to take the time to help the new nurses,who will be able to help with the load once they are trained and make your life less stressful?? So the new nurses quit and then where are you... still no better. You treat people how you want to be treated...with respect. You all started in the same place we are today, except things are much different and more difficult now. There are no excuses for how nurses treat their young! It tells me that you experienced nurses, who are suppose to love helping people, really aren't such caring people. Nursing is very stressful and new nurses are willing to do the work to get where they need to be. I don't think that any new nurse goes into nursing thinking that it's going to be a "piece of cake" and handed to them!! With all that you go thru to get thru nursing school, we all know that! I believe that nursing makes you old faster and many of the people, who are nurses, shouldn't be b/c they are there for the wrong reasons. We always have choices and making excuses for how you treat new grads speaks a lot about you. A new grads success is in the preceptors hands, so if you don't want to be a preceptor and know you aren't good at it, then don't do it! You don't have the right to take that away from someone who has worked hard to get into nursing and knows that this is where they want to be! I'm so tired of the excuses that experienced nurses give for the way they treat new grads! You were all once in our place.

Sometimes you're not given the choice about precepting.

I'd like to see more respect for the nurse who feels bullied. (It's not just the new grad.) Are we blaming the victim? "It's just because we're busy. You should toughen up. No need to get upset." Don't most of us know the difference between real bullying/emotional abuse and the curtness that comes from stress and hurry? Are all the many nurses who've felt bullied by other nurses guilty of overreaction and emotional fragility?

If someone asks too many questions and is told "I'd really like you to figure this out on your own," clearly that is not bullying. Clinical instructors often say this without making someone feel lower than ant dung. They are professional and respectful. The message is clear. Find the answer and come to her/him only if you can't or it's an emergency. New grads should expect and be accustomed to reality checks like this.

I appreciate OP's speaking out, and her vivid description of the emotional destruction that followed. Call it bullying, lateral violence, emotional abuse, nurses behaving badly, or eating their young -- it needs to be dealt with. It should and will keep coming up until it has been eliminated through policies of zero-tolerance.

OP was right about the need for better orientation programs, reducing stress on experienced staff and preventing new grads being "thrown to the wolves." New nurses being better prepared for the job by their college programs would help, too.

Nursing schools deserve a share of the blame for new grads not being prepared for the work load and feeling "bullied". New grads who weren't CNAs or LPNs first don't have the slightest idea what real nursing is like. I wish schools could incorporate more pt care floor-time into their programs. It would be nice to see students take on a full pt load toward the end of their clinicals. But I suppose there's a lot of liability issues there.

Brandon, that's what I just don't understand. As part of my PN education, I had to take a full assignment in acute care and handle it or fail that portion of the course and not graduate. Yes, it was stressful but by the time I grauated I could handle the LPNs assignment I was preceptored by and when I went to my final placement, I was expected to work as a new nurse after a basic orientation to the unit. When we graduated we were given a one week orientation and cut loose on the world. The BScN students never had this expectation and never had to manage a full assignment.

Brandon, that's what I just don't understand. As part of my PN education, I had to take a full assignment in acute care and handle it or fail that portion of the course and not graduate. Yes, it was stressful but by the time I grauated I could handle the LPNs assignment I was preceptored by and when I went to my final placement, I was expected to work as a new nurse after a basic orientation to the unit. When we graduated we were given a one week orientation and cut loose on the world. The BScN students never had this expectation and never had to manage a full assignment.
Was that in Canada? I really think it the liability factor keeping this from happening. The transition from student to nurse much have been so much smoother in the old hospital-diploma programs.
I'd like to see more respect for the nurse who feels bullied. (It's not just the new grad.) Are we blaming the victim?

I'd like to see more respect for actual victims of bullying by not diluting what they've gone through and using the word "bully" for every freaking time someone doesn't treat a person like the special snowflake that they think they are.

Tyler Clementi. Amanda Todd. Ryan Halligan. Dawn-Marie Wesley. Real VICTIMS.

Your coworkers aren't super supportive? You're not a victim. If you think you are? That's a much bigger problem than someone being short with you.

In my experience, new AND old nurses share the blame for this phenomenon, and neither want to take responsibility.

A lot of the "young" make themselves look pretty tasty by their lack of work ethic, sense of entitlement, poor communication skills, immaturity, unrealistic expectations & reactionary emotional response to EVERYTHING. Then when they get called on it, they cry and play "poor victim," usually get defensive and all-out refuse to take responsibility for their own actions or thoughts. Rather than learn self-recognizance, the art of reflection or have a sense of humor or honor, too many newbies choose to react, blame, and deflect. That's an unfortunately common characteristic of being "young."

Many old bats also seem to want to refuse to accept their role in this stereotype. I've seen some be AWFUL to new grads. Too often they are complacent with the "boot camp" mentality, grinding their axes on the heads of those they precept. I think too many old timers have deep-seated issues with facing the facts that they are aging, and all the aspects about it. They use their wisdom & knowledge as a blunt instrument rather than a constructive tool. Many are bitter or burnt out and can't admit misery loves company. And again, when called on it? You guessed it: defensive, blaming and deflecting.

All of this 'eating our young' nonsense is really becoming a tiresome discussion. Maybe if we all made a conscious choice to practice some self-control and personal responsibility in the name of combatting this stupid stereotype, it wouldn't be such a burning issue all the time. Maybe then we could focus on IMPORTANT issues facing our unstable profession these days.

If it is such a tiresome discussion, why did you read about it and respond to it? It isn't that tiresome of a topic to people who are actually being bullied on a daily basis who do not deserve that treatment. As a "victim" I can tell you this experience is so psychologically tormenting that it could make you physically sick to your stomach day after day. I quit my job due to it. I agree that some young nurses may have a sense of entitlement-many want to do their year of Med/Surg and get their Masters and get out of bedside nursing, and many experienced nurses resent this because they feel that they "paid their dues". We all have choices in life, and new grads don't deserve to be treated like crap because nurses are miserable because they are not happy with the choices they made which have made them bitter. That feeling of being new, of feeling like you have no idea what your doing is lost to nurses who have lived and worked for the duration of the time I have been alive. I dont think it is fair to stereotype young people either by saying they have a"lack of work ethic, sense of entitlement, poor communication skills, immaturity, unrealistic expectations & reactionary emotional response to EVERYTHING", because there are many young people that act more grown up than people twice their age. The sad thing is that nurses should be compassionate, and putting yourself in one's shoes is to have compassion, and unfortunately that is lacking in many nurses today, and I dont know if that is because they do not have enough to go around between their pts and their co-workers, but if you dont have it , then you shouldnt be a nurse. And I absolutely cannot stand when nurses talk crap about their patients to other nurses, sometimes not even in private but right in the doorways of the patients they are talking about,loud enough to be overheard-so unprofessional- could you demonstrate any better how you dont possess any empathy,compassion, nor discretion, and you could be violating HIPAA while looking like a total jerk. Then you turn around and talk about how this nurse and that nurse did this and that and oh my god they are such idiots. UGH. Patients can see right their facade of caring and talk about them behind their backs to nurses that actually care! A large part of this bullying is gossiping about other's incompetence behind their backs. Happier people have more meaningful conversations-and usually meaningful conversations do not include gossip and belittling others to make yourself feel better. So one way nurses can combat this problem is to not entertain or waste their precious time with non-meaningful conversation by people that are obviously not happy and say " hey , I dont have time to hear this", and the enabling will stop.

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