This "us" vs "them" mentality.... - page 8
I've been reading through the posts from the last few days, and I'm completely astonished by the "us" vs "them" mentality that is showing up between the nursing students and the staff nurses. ... Read More
Oct 1, '11 by ProfRN4, MSNQuote from linearthinkerAnd all this, because our society tells us "we can be whatever we want to be". The generation that was treated with kid-gloves is growing up in a time of recession and massive unemployment. A time where you can't be whatever you want to be.I think nursing needs to do a better job of weeding people out. Let's start with requiring some SAT scores comparable to the other professional schools, which means no more of this community college for RNs stuff. It's nonsense. Professionals have college degrees (don't bother with the "I know a BSN who is a terrible nurse" crap- you will not convince me). The NCLEX needs to be much harder, and much more expensive. CEU requirements need to be more stringent, as in more rigorous, and more of them. In addition, RNs should have to reboard every 5 years, just like physicians.
I honestly think if you weed out the lowest common denominator you will attract a higher caliber of professional, and then the money and respect will follow. I have said it before, and it isn't popular. The reason nursing isn't respected is because it is populated by people who simply aren't going to gain respect from other professionals. We need to get rid of them. Raise the bar, weed them out. I don't want girls who look and act like they belong on the pole representing nursing. I don't want Gomer Pyle representing nursing. I don't want idiots representing nursing. I don't want Jerry Springer guest material representing nursing. Raise the bar. Let's get rid of them.
You want nursing to be elite, start only accepting elite into the ranks.
Argue too strenuously with this, and I'm going to assume you fall into one of the Gomer Pyle or Springer categories.
Oct 1, '11 by woohQuote from linearthinkerBut what if it's their dReAm to tAkE cArE oF pEoPlE????Raise the bar. Let's get rid of them.
You want nursing to be elite, start only accepting elite into the ranks.
Oct 1, '11 by RN in trainingQuote from woohBut what if it's their dReAm to tAkE cArE oF pEoPlE????
BAAAAhahahaha. hit the nail on the head. "omg, i just want to help people, ya'll!" if it were handwriting it'd be big and bubbly with hearts over the "i"s. hahaha! with a picture of said student making out with her boyfriend with a huge mixed drink in her hand at spring break last year.
Oct 1, '11 by dudette10, BSN, RNQuote from linearthinkerI see your point, but the "elite" need to be trained while in nursing school and far beyond nursing school. The nursing profession will still encounter the need to train, regardless of how elite a student is/was. That's the point of this thread.You want nursing to be elite, start only accepting elite into the ranks.
No matter how smart a student or new grad is, OJT is key. Of course, you have the experienced nurses with 100 years of floor work who claim that they were on their own by hour 1. Ok, I get that--I may not completely believe it, but I get it. In today's environment, it just doesn't happen. That's the environment we have to work with....or change.
On all measures that determine who is elite prior to being accepted into nursing school and while in nursing school, I was definitely one of them. However, that doesn't change the fact that when I walked onto a floor as a student and now as a working nurse, I'm still a newbie that needs training. With that evidence, should we change the educational model for nurses once again? I say...definitely maybe.
My school was short on skills, but big on critical thinking, patho, and pharm. While I wish that I knew the hands-on skills to make everyone's job easier, give me a couple tries, and I got it. The skills aren't rocket science. The thinking is. Regardless, I still need help with that thinking. Even if my floated ideas are, 9 times out of 10, confirmed by my preceptor as correct, I still need help even if I was/am "elite."
I really do think a really good place to start would be to start requiring nurses to reboard every 5 years. We could lose a lot of ballast that way immediately. Let's face, a great many people who presently hold RN licenses should not. We should purge the ranks.
Basic literacy would also be good criteria.
Quote from woohThey can work in customer service at Piggly Wiggly. Those customers need "taking care of" and these days it is not much different, lol. If it is really health care they want, they can do customer service at CVS or Walgreens. He//, they will have the last laugh, b/c there is little poop (I won't say no poop, b/c you never know) involved.But what if it's their dReAm to tAkE cArE oF pEoPlE????
In all seriousness, Nursing has got to stop accepting the lowest common denominator into our ranks. It is embarrassing.
Oct 1, '11 by xtxrnQuote from nurse educateAnd all this, because our society tells us "we can be whatever we want to be". The generation that was treated with kid-gloves is growing up in a time of recession and massive unemployment. A time where you can't be whatever you want to be.
Quote from All4SeasonsBy people whom don't respect nurses.Linear Thinker says," the reason nursing isn't respected is" ; my question for him/ her is, isn't respected by whom? That is a massive generalization.
Dudette, I skipped pages 2-8, but I didn't see anyone saying they knew it all on day 1. If anyone said that, I think they are misremembering the facts. In any event, you are I are not talking about the same thing at all. I am venting about the apparently incredibly low standards for being accepted to and graduating from a nursing program and passing NCLEX these days.
I would agree that comprehensive orientation and support are critical to the success of the new graduate nurse, but that nurse has to have the sense that god gave a goat in the first place or all the hugs, rainbows and warm fuzzies in the world are not going to help.
Oct 1, '11 by hiddencatRNI only graduated about a year ago, and with the exception of our maternity clinical (and the L&D portion of that was mostly shadowing), we had our clinical instructor, assigned patients, communicated with the nurse, but were primarily supervised by the clinical instructor. I can't imagine being in a position where the staff RN has the sole burden of teaching the student: they presumably don't know you, your skills, what exactly you're allowed and have been checked off to do. Aside from being an immense burden for the staff nurse, I think it really short-changes the student.
I've had nursing students shadowing with me, and really enjoy it. I do my best to be friendly, talk through what and why I'm doing, answer questions, etc, but if I were expected not just to be a nurse they're spending the day shadowing but solely in charge of their learning for clinical on top of my other responsibilities...I would be pretty frustrated.
Oct 1, '11 by No Stars In My EyesGoing through an ORIENTATION to a specific unit and a services particularities isn't the same thing as being a student. Even us '100 years of experience' nurses weren't just flung out on the floor all by ourselves 'on day one', but orientation was more about learning the forms and paperwork, routines and methods, not nursing practice per se. OJT should be where the practice is REFINED, not learned from scratch.
I don't think an expanded clinical +/or an internship is out of line for today's RNs. The scope of nursing has grown to such a degree, the jobs so downright unwieldy, that anyone would require a deeper, more extensive training. But I think it should be a school's responsibility, not a facility's staff-nurses. While staff can help you learn the job, the basics should already have been covered.
Oct 1, '11 by All4SeasonsQuote from linearthinkerThat's a low brow response from you,isn't it, Linear Thinker? I thought you prided yourself on your intellect. Perhaps you didn't understand the questionBy people whom don't respect nurses.
In any regard,I am through with AN. To read so much caustic,sarcastic,bombastic drivel....well,it's just not fun.This is my 31 st year of active practice and the end's not in sight; I have spent the past 26 years in various ICUs on both sides of the country; I've have worked with hundreds of nurses and thousands of patients and their families; had some really tough situations,horrid shifts,worked with some,let's just say,less than charitable colleagues and many more wonderful ones.
But,here's the kicker -I haven't developed the hard-edged,aggressive,judgmental 'tudes that I routinely read here (interestingly enough,only in the General Nursing discussion). I'm generally kind and respectful to my peers,I seek advice when I'm unsure,I believe one can learn from others - including students. And I don't come in through the hospital's front door dragging a chip on my shoulder the size of Manhattan like so many of you. I've read many fine posts here,written by fine nurses, but the bitterness here is just not palatable,so...
I'm off to save some lives.... Ba-bye!
Quote from All4SeasonsI understood it. It was my droll way to indicate I thought it was a puerile question.That's a low brow response from you,isn't it, Linear Thinker? I thought you prided yourself on your intellect. Perhaps you didn't understand the question