Are they lying or are they confused?

[Alnitak7]

A co worker informed me that a new patient was lying when he said the PT told him he could get out of bed by himself.

I said, "Maybe he just thinks this."

A lady and her husband got kicked out of a boarding house I worked in because she told the case-worker, "All we had for lunch was a little chicken patty." I really served other foods with it that she couldn't remember.

I explained to the case worker that this is how she remembers it and she isn't deliberately lying. I also explained this to the administrator who had other ideas and said, "She's lying and she's gonna get me in trouble."

I felt really sorry for her when she had to move out. Then I was told to call the police if she tried to call on the phone.

I also was falsely accused of lying when I tried to get healthcare for my child. I misunderstood the protocol of their office and also noticed they were not listening to me. I was beside myself because I was bending over backwards to get along with them while the entire staff accused me of lying and sounded like third-graders.

I always wonder how many hundreds of healthcare clients are accused of lying when they're just confused. I think this is mental and emotional abuse.

I do not think patients and their families should be punished or thrown out of a place because they had a misconception or when they remember something wrong.

[VANurse2010]

I agree, but often these people persist with their stories even after being shown evidence to the contrary.

[Rhi007]

And this is when psych should join the party... Get an assessment done and go from there....first rule of nursing: never assume or judge a situation or person

[onyx77]

I agree but often these people persist with their stories even after being shown evidence to the contrary.[/quote']

And they persist with their stories because that is what is real to them. People with dementia most often will not comprehend when when you "show them the evidence to the contrary." It sounds like this facility needs to do some serious dementia training with all of their staff. Especially management!

[DedHedRN]

Delusions are very real to the person who has them, you may tell them the shirt is pink, show them the shirt is pink, but they will never believe it is.

[JDZ344]

I don't think it is a lie if you truly believe something happened. It can be a false memory. For example, both myself and my brother have a different version of a major event that happened in our family over a decade ago. We can not both be right, yet we both would swear on a bible in a courtroom that our version of events is true.

With the first example, I would find out what the PT actually said. Maybe it was "You can not get out of bed by yourself" and the patient misheard. It was most likely a misunderstanding between the two of them.

Second example is odd. What kind of boarding house was it? Did the lady have memory impairment? Sounds like the manager really over reacted, but maybe there was a history there.

In my facility, we would never accuse people of lying- except in a handful of examples were alert and orientated people are trying to manipulate the situation, which is not what you were talking about- .We will say they are misinformed, confused, etc, if that is the case.

[DedHedRN]

Even if they are lying, which I doubt they are doing it purposefully, as nurses we are obligated to provide proper care to the pt and maintain our professionalism. People come with all sorts of personality disorders, and defense mechanisms. Nurses are supposed to have tools to deal with this properly and maintain the pts dignity at the same time.

[chrisrn24]

I don't think it is a lie if you truly believe something happened. It can be a false memory. For example, both myself and my brother have a different version of a major event that happened in our family over a decade ago. We can not both be right, yet we both would swear on a bible in a courtroom that our version of events is true.

With the first example, I would find out what the PT actually said. Maybe it was "You can not get out of bed by yourself" and the patient misheard. It was most likely a misunderstanding between the two of them.

Second example is odd. What kind of boarding house was it? Did the lady have memory impairment? Sounds like the manager really over reacted, but maybe there was a history there.

In my facility, we would never accuse people of lying- except in a handful of examples were alert and orientated people are trying to manipulate the situation, which is not what you were talking about- .We will say they are misinformed, confused, etc, if that is the case.

Exactly.

[VANurse2010]

And they persist with their stories because that is what is real to them. People with dementia most often will not comprehend when when you "show them the evidence to the contrary." It sounds like this facility needs to do some serious dementia training with all of their staff. Especially management!

I'm not talking about people with dementia.

[Alnitak7]

I'm not talking about people with dementia.

I do agree that some people lie to manipulate everyone around them and ignore anyone who tries to reason with them.

I think it's important to know the difference between those who have dementia and those who have misconceptions who are trying hard to get along and those who are manipulators. I think some people who are confused are being identified as manipulators when they really are not that way at all.

[58jeli]

Sometimes they confabulate, attempting to convince others and themselves that they are not confused.

[Alnitak7]

Sometimes they confabulate, attempting to convince others and themselves that they are not confused.

In my own particular case, when I was confused about office policies, I was very nice and I listened to these jerks who just wanted to start a fight and who were all lined up and bickering with me and staring me in the face.

I said, "Well if that's the way you do it, I'll just go along with it."

Even when it was obvious that I really did not know their protocol and did not want to argue they were still spoiling for a fight.

I found other healthcare offices where they had more insights into the feelings of others.

Later on they sent me a letter claiming that I, "deceived them...." and they were still carrying on like backwards crooked lawyers. Needless to say, I was beside myself.