Are they lying or are they confused?

[Alnitak7]

A co worker informed me that a new patient was lying when he said the PT told him he could get out of bed by himself.

I said, "Maybe he just thinks this."

A lady and her husband got kicked out of a boarding house I worked in because she told the case-worker, "All we had for lunch was a little chicken patty." I really served other foods with it that she couldn't remember.

I explained to the case worker that this is how she remembers it and she isn't deliberately lying. I also explained this to the administrator who had other ideas and said, "She's lying and she's gonna get me in trouble."

I felt really sorry for her when she had to move out. Then I was told to call the police if she tried to call on the phone.

I also was falsely accused of lying when I tried to get healthcare for my child. I misunderstood the protocol of their office and also noticed they were not listening to me. I was beside myself because I was bending over backwards to get along with them while the entire staff accused me of lying and sounded like third-graders.

I always wonder how many hundreds of healthcare clients are accused of lying when they're just confused. I think this is mental and emotional abuse.

I do not think patients and their families should be punished or thrown out of a place because they had a misconception or when they remember something wrong.

[twinmommy+2, ADN, BSN, MSN]

Saiderap, I can see your point of view, however there are many who have personality disorders that predisposes them to lying to those around them to gain an upperhand, eventually they can't keep up with the lies they've told. I've seen it many times even regarding food like the story you told in the op. Patients do sometimes lie and will use a sympathetic nurse to try and manipulate their situation.

[nurseprnRN, BSN, RN]

This is classic behavior for early adolescents, especially those who have been told all their lives how special, intelligent, and such they are. They hit adolescence and run into more people who are also brilliant and accomplished, and they start feeling less secure, and feel they have to tell bigger, brighter, more interesting stories to keep your love and attention. Dealing with this in an grandchild now...it's a challenge. And some people never do outgrow the need for validation and attention on their own merits and feel the need to embellish. Sometimes they don't even do it intentionally-- it just comes out of their mouths.

Agree: psych consult.

[ktwlpn, LPN]

Every single minute of the day somewhere a lying,manipulating-maybe a borderline personality disordered person is trying to scam someone in a clinic,nursing home or hospital. Sad but true.They want narcs or attention or just to cause an uproar. One patient like this can thrown an entire unit into chaos,exhaust the staff and monopolize their time causing other patients to suffer.

A nurse with less experience may not be attuned to this behavior but those of us who have been around for awhile have better BS detectors.

It's a sad fact that the acts of these people will cause others to suffer.Believe me, no one is purposefully inflicting mental and emotional abuse on innocent clients for s/g's. I'm pretty sure the buttholes vastly outnumber the innocent clients who may have suspicion cast upon them briefly.

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

A co worker informed me that a new patient was lying when he said the PT told him he could get out of bed by himself.

I said, "Maybe he just thinks this."

A lady and her husband got kicked out of a boarding house I worked in because she told the case-worker, "All we had for lunch was a little chicken patty." I really served other foods with it that she couldn't remember.

I explained to the case worker that this is how she remembers it and she isn't deliberately lying. I also explained this to the administrator who had other ideas and said, "She's lying and she's gonna get me in trouble."

I felt really sorry for her when she had to move out. Then I was told to call the police if she tried to call on the phone.

I also was falsely accused of lying when I tried to get healthcare for my child. I misunderstood the protocol of their office and also noticed they were not listening to me. I was beside myself because I was bending over backwards to get along with them while the entire staff accused me of lying and sounded like third-graders.

I always wonder how many hundreds of healthcare clients are accused of lying when they're just confused. I think this is mental and emotional abuse.

I do not think patients and their families should be punished or thrown out of a place because they had a misconception or when they remember something wrong.

On the other side of the coin, maybe the boarding house resident has a long, long history of lying about the care she recieves in order to get staff in trouble or to make herself the center of attention. I doubt someone would be kicked out of a group home for a single incident.

People who are dependent on nurses for their care 24/7 in places like adult foster care and LTC often gravitate toward manipulation and lies. It is very, very common. And not really surprising.

LTC residents have lost even the most basic power over their own lives. The threat of being able to "report" staff for abuses that may or may not have happened is one of the few forms of power they have left. It gives them leverage in an otherwise completly helpless situation. It's really quite intoxicating for some of these residents.

It's a way of getting attention, too. These people are, by definition, some of the most overlooked and forgotten members of our society. When they opine to the social worker about how they aren't getting fed or how no one changed them all night that changes. For a brief moment, they are the tragic main character in their tale of woe.

All of this might be perfectly understandable behavior under the circumstances, but in our overly litigous nation I can't really blame facilities for trying to get rid of the repeat offenders.

[ktwlpn, LPN]

QUOTE>>> For a brief moment, they are the tragic main character in their tale of woe.>>>QUOTE Darn it.that's MY role this week!!!

[Alnitak7]

Every single minute of the day somewhere a lying,manipulating-maybe a borderline personality disordered person is trying to scam someone in a clinic,nursing home or hospital. Sad but true.They want narcs or attention or just to cause an uproar. One patient like this can thrown an entire unit into chaos,exhaust the staff and monopolize their time causing other patients to suffer.

A nurse with less experience may not be attuned to this behavior but those of us who have been around for awhile have better BS detectors.

It's a sad fact that the acts of these people will cause others to suffer.Believe me, no one is purposefully inflicting mental and emotional abuse on innocent clients for s/g's. I'm pretty sure the buttholes vastly outnumber the innocent clients who may have suspicion cast upon them briefly.

On the other hand, there are also those who think I know my stuff and she's lying.

They might have heard that when someone looks away, hesitates or changes their story, it is because they're telling a lie. Well there might be other reasons they don't see.

Some people who have no life experience don't realize that psychology is not a mathmatical science. For example, a client who "agrees to a new patient exam" and who sincerely thinks there is more involved in one of these than there is is not telling a lie or changing their story. They just have a misconception.

[Alnitak7]

"People who are dependent on nurses for their care 24/7 in places like adult foster care and LTC often gravitate toward manipulation and lies. It is very, very common. And not really surprising.

LTC residents have lost even the most basic power over their own lives. The threat of being able to "report" staff for abuses that may or may not have happened is one of the few forms of power they have left. It gives them leverage in an otherwise completley helpless situation. It's really quite intoxicating for some of these residents. "

You have to remember too that there are some health workers who fall into this category as well. I would like to think all of them are stable and deeply caring but one news report after another proves this wrong.

In my own case if a staff of people can get together and accuse a client they don't like of lying this could give them the same leverage, power and control and intoxicating effect that you're talking about.

Consider also, some sociopaths who get into healthcare and who play their hobbies on people who are helpless.

If they were bored then maybe it was exciting to accuse a client of lying with the chance of getting them so mad that you might be able to hear them screaming all over the building.

Listen to these words out of the office girl. "You shouldn't lie. You can get in a pretty good fight that way."

Well, I read between the lines. "A good fight" was what she wanted to break up the monotony of her day.

Otherwise, I might have gotten credit for my attempts to understand and get along with this particular staff of people.

[Alnitak7]

As an ongoing habit with my confused clients, I say, "I think maybe you've forgotten........" Then I correct their misconceptions. This works well sometimes.

[ktwlpn, LPN]

I'm not saying that sometimes this type of thing doesn't happen. I'm sure there are groups of dysfunctional staff in lots of settings. In my experience when there is a fracture like this in the relationship between the patient/client and the healthcare staff it is often impossible to move through it and re-establish therapeutic communication.There is usually more to the story-I doubt someone was thrown out of their home for one incident-there probably a history of some kind that you are not aware of.

I work in LTC so I have learned the difference between deliberate lying and the confusion of the demented. I've written page after page of nurse's notes,careplanned out the wazoo and attended numerous team meetings due to both. There is a BIG difference between what you state you have experienced and a possibly demented or medicated resident in a nursing home . You were in a position of power-you had the choice to avail yourself of services elsewhere or go straight to the physician in that office and report the problem. My residents in LTC have few resources and I have seen someone's life made pretty miserable by a staff member but it is not the accepted culture at our LTC and quickly investigated and stopped. I've seen nurses and cna's moved to another unit to separate them from a resident (for the protection of both) The system usually exposes the "sociopaths" pretty quickly