Sure to Get Flamed for This

[Kyrshamarks]

I am sure I am about to get flamed for posting this, but I feel the need to anyways. I have been seeing these threads talking about bullying and teachers or preceptors hating the students, and new nurses or abusing them because of some perceived slight or injustice. Well guess what?

The world is a hard cold nasty place that does not need to be polite to you or worry whether your feelings got hurt and you feel offended. You need to grow up and realize that the abuse that you claim is rampant, or the bullying that you experience all the time is not their problem, but rather your problem.

I see so many posts about this and I wonder how some of these people have survived as long as they have. School is tough? Deal with it. You think that someone else is getting it easier? Well too bad, they may be but no one ever promised you everything would be fair. You have to learn that there is inequality in life. It's how you overcome that inequality that matters. It teaches perseverance.

Abusive teachers? Maybe they are trying to get the best in you to come out. What you think is abuse maybe is pushing you to your limits, to get you further along in your potential. So your feelings got hurt at school, grow up, feelings get hurt every day.

Your preceptor is unorganized and does not like you and bad mouths you to your manager, and all your patients love you but no one at the hospital sees how great you really are?

Well your preceptor may actually have great time management skill, but when having to slow down and teach someone their job, things do tend to get disorganized. You may be part of the blame there.

Did you ever stop to think that you are the proverbial monkey wrench in a well oiled machine? The need to teach you, and I realize you do need to learn, can be very time consuming. They may tell your manager that you need improving or that you are not advancing fast enough. They may be all smiles to you, because they want to support you and keep you positive, but they need to tell the manager how you really are.

Speaking of orientation, how often have I seen statements that say the other nurses are not supportive and will not answer questions. Have you ever thought that maybe you are asking TOO MANY questions?

After a bit it may seem that you are not retaining the info provided and everyone gets tired of answering the same questions over and over. Part of learning is knowing when to shut your mouth and just watch. It has been said by people wiser than me that the only question you should ask is the question that you already know the answer to. If that does not make sense to you, think about it for a while and you might just be surprised that a light comes on.

So basically what i am saying is grow up and act like the adult that you are. Life is not fair, school is not fair, work is not fair. You just have to learn to deal with it.

[tntrn, ASN, RN]

It is the norm these days to turn over every rock and pebble to find cases of bullying, racism, war on women, income inequality, etc., etc., etc. My theory is that if you turn over enough rocks you'll eventually find what you are looking for

As for who told these young folk they are never wrong? It's been going on for 20 years.....you're not the loser, you're the second winner! (overheard in my neighbor's yard after a race through the garden on hands and knees by two young boys). The real world has winners and losers. Period. If you lose and want to be a winner, you simply have to work harder next time.

Not to say that bullying and all the rest doesn't occur.....but a lot of it could be misinterpretation, and a lot of it could be eliminated altogether by one standing up for oneself and growing a set.

[motherof3sons]

I love to teach. I like to see that lightbulb moment. I love tough questions. However, in teaching I will challenge the new grad, student orientee to think on their own. I will ask them the question back or "what do you think?" If super busy, I will ask the learner to write questions down and we will review them later.

What I don't like is when coming to me and I ask basic questions(normal blood sugar levels and having a diabetic pt) and the student has no clue---deer in the headlight look---and if they aren't prepared then I will stop asking them questions......it may be mean but if you want my knowledge you need to have a bit of your own.

Just because students have graduated, doesn't mean the books are put away. New grads need to be proactive in their own learning too....look stuff up just to learn. I still look stuff up, read and study----learning never ends! There are many new grads who are doing great, learning and such. However, there are some that are lazy, spoiled and self centered as previous poster put it.

[dudette10, MSN, RN]

I love to teach. I like to see that lightbulb moment. I love tough questions. However, in teaching I will challenge the new grad, student orientee to think on their own. I will ask them the question back or "what do you think?" If super busy, I will ask the learner to write questions down and we will review them later.

What I don't like is when coming to me and I ask basic questions(normal blood sugar levels and having a diabetic pt) and the student has no clue---deer in the headlight look---and if they aren't prepared then I will stop asking them questions......it may be mean but if you want my knowledge you need to have a bit of your own.

Just because students have graduated, doesn't mean the books are put away. New grads need to be proactive in their own learning too....look stuff up just to learn. I still look stuff up, read and study----learning never ends! There are many new grads who are doing great, learning and such. However, there are some that are lazy, spoiled and self centered as previous poster put it.

i agree with you, but I want to point out something in my workplace that I find even more concerning: new grads who never ask questions. They fly under the radar, and when I've followed them or helped out on a rapid response, the holes in their knowledge are very evident.

Everyone speaks of the new grads with too many questions, but we really need to talk about those nurses off orientation who never do.

[Not_A_Hat_Person, RN]

In my experience, "life isn't fair" usually means "I'm about to screw you over", "I'm in the process of screwing you over", or "I just screwed you over." And people who are insensitive about other people's feelings tend to be extremely sensitive about their own.

[motherof3sons]

Absolutely ask questions....I still do after 22 years of nursing! Usually though it has to do with the computer!---paper and pen never gave me trouble!

I can tell from the questions that are asked the level of understanding there is behind the question.....but if there are no questions asked you wonder where they are at in their ability. Like you said---that is concerning and scares the heck out of me!

[Not_A_Hat_Person, RN]

Let's compare our expectations of new nurses to our expectations of MD interns. MD interns have a co-intern, a second year, an attending, and on-going teaching rounds. Yet, we nurses see, through their orders, that they still make mistakes that we talk to them to correct. Now let's imagine a new nurse in an environment filled with nurses sharing the OP's attitude. The new nurse is essentially alone, judged by the subjective mood of the experienced nurses, and, being human and under a lot of stress, is lacking confidence in her own decision-making and skills. She will still make mistakes, but I would rather she be in an environment that can head mistakes off at the pass than in one where they go unnoticed. This wish isn't to make it easier on the new nurse or the preceptor or the experienced nurses, but to make it safer for patients!!

I'm not talking about spoon feeding new nurses or treating them with kid gloves or feeding preceptors with stressed out orientees to the wolves. I'm talking about a learning environment that puts the patient and patient safety at the center.

The "new nurse tolerance" among preceptors is highly variable. When I was orienting, I had more preceptors than I could count with just as many different teaching styles, and their tolerance levels were also different. It was a very disconcerting learning process for me where my confidence, already on shaky ground, was shot, and I had to build it up again on a daily basis. Although I'm an extremely quick learner and I study on my own, it took me a full 15 months to think "I can do this!" Twelve weeks of orientation compared to 15 months until I was confident enough on my own. Think about that.

Think about how many new grads get less than 12 weeks of orientation, sometimes much less. In my nursing jobs, orientation has ranged from 4 hours to 2 weeks.

New grads of yesteryear were able to hit the floor running from day 1 because they had much more clinical time. Back when hospitals ran nursing programs, students were the evening shift. They spent more time on the floor in 1 term than many current grads spend in 2 years. They also didn't face nearly as many restrictions on what they were allowed to do as a student. At one classmate's complex med-surg clinical, students were only allowed to give oral meds. Can you really blame current new grads for feeling unprepared and asking lots of questions?

[mama.RN]

I've experienced both sides of this, thankfully not much. There is bullying, there are people who have bad days and lash out, there are tough instructors, etc. I just think this post over generalizes in that it makes it sound like bullying is a myth, when it most certainly is not. It happens in nursing as well as other fields. As a child I saw my mother come home crying daily from a job at which she was bullied by a few other women. Not nursing, but same effects as I hear about here. Yes, some situations are mislabeled as bullying, but that does not mean that they all are. If my son, who starts school for the first time in the fall, ever comes home complaining that he's being bullied, I'm certainly not going to tell him to toughen up, it's a cruel world, and to get used to it. Nor will I expect him to tolerate it at any point in school or employment....No, life does not need to be presented on a silver platter, but I think that people should be expected to act professionally/civilly, be they teachers, fellow students, professors, instructors or colleagues. The "life isn't fair" excuse is probably the one I'd expect someone to use to be able to continue unacceptable behavior.

[dudette10, MSN, RN]

Your preceptor is unorganized and does not lile you and bad mouths you to your manager and all your patients love you bit no one at the hospital sees how great you really are? Well your preceptor may actually have great time mamngement skills but when having to sdslow down and teach someone thier job, things do tend to get disorganized. You may be part of the blame there. Did you ever stop to think that you are the proverbial monkey wrench in a well oiled machine? The need to teach you, and I realize you do need to learn, can be very time consuming. They may tell your manager that you need improving or that you are not advancing fast enough. They may be all smiles to you, because they want to support you and keep you positive, but they need to tell the manager how you really are.

I don't agree with this on two fronts: 1) if the preceptor has "great time management skills," she will be slowed down by having an orientee, but she will not necessarily become "disorganized." 2) The preceptor also needs to grow some balls and have some actual communication skills in order to address the orientee's weaknesses on her own. A preceptor can be supportive AND correct/guide an orientee; the two things are NOT mutually exclusive. How can an orientee grow and develop if met with "all smiles," only to be blindsided by being dragged into the manager's office and told that they aren't growing and developing? False confidence-building is not effective to becoming a knowledgeable and safe nurse. Sure, life isn't fair, but, in reality, that's just an inept preceptor.

Speaking of orientation, How often have i seen statements that say the other nurses are not supportive and will not answer questions. Have you ever thought that maybe you are asking TOO MANY questions? After a bit it may seem that you are not retaining the info provided and everyone gets tires of answering the same questions over and over. Part of learning is knowing when to shut your mouth and just watch. It is been said by people wiser than me that the only question you should ask is the question that you already know the answer to. If that does not make sense to you, think about it for a while and you might just be surprised that a light comes on.

If you hear the same questions over and over (and they really aren't the exact same questions, c'mon), the orientee is having issues connecting the dots. Instead of giving up--and excusing experienced nurses of giving up because *gasp* they are annoyed--time to TALK to the orientee about their issues, time to involve the nurse educator. If that doesn't work, extending orientation time. If that doesn't work, yes, firing is appropriate. Maybe if the proper teaching AND EVALUATION AND IMPROVEMENT methods were actually utilized, you wouldn't have as many fired new grads coming on here wondering what the hell happened!

Also please refer to my previous post about new grads who don't ask questions.

[SeattleJess]

"The only question you should ask is the one you know the answer to" ??!

Ok, I'm not gonna ask what you meant by that... !

Kyrshamarks makes some valid points but this one I cannot accept. It seems to me the only question I should not ask is one I know the answer to - out of respect for others' time. Otherwise, I believe I have an obligation to ask questions if I know I don't know something out of respect for others' lives and well-being. We're not in a profession where mistakes are no big deal.

I may have misunderstood so I await additional explanation of this rule-of-thumb.

[SeattleJess]

Here's the thing though. The minute they become your "bully" and you become their "victim", you have just surrendered any and all power you have to change the situation and your perception of it. The breadth of their power over you lies solely in your control. Yes, I know you need the job/class/whatever and yes, I know you may not be able to just walk away. There really, truly are other ways to frame this in your mind to lessen your stress. This is not "blaming the victim". This is handing you YOUR power back to control YOUR feelings. Ultimately you are the only one in charge of how you feel, react, cope and carry on.

So while I feel sympathy/empathy for those who are on the receiving end of a mean person, I feel no desire or need to run in and rescue them. What good would that do? Sooner or later we all need to learn to slay our own demons, internally and externally (so to speak - don't go kill anyone now). YOU have all the power. There are a couple people I work with who aren't my favorite. They are critical and grumpy and threatened by my growth at our place of employment. I don't give them a whole lot of my head space and I most assuredly don't consider them bullies, simply because that would then make me a victim. I am never a victim because I will never surrender my power to make MY life MINE. There are a lot of tactics to dealing with a mean person. They have been discussed and written about and quoted since time immemorial. Find one that resonates with you and put it into practice. Take back your power. All the whimpering of "But that isn't fair, they are MEAN TO ME!" is useless. You can't force others to change and you can't force others to force others to change etc, ad infinitum. Control what you can. That would be simply yourself.

LIKE, LIKE, and LIKE AGAIN! As the Moody Blues said, "It's all just a question of balance." Bullying does happen and this is the power attitude to take to deal with it, in my opinion.

The nurse who ran my CNA class was mean, mean, mean, critical and sometimes just nasty and unfair to many of us. She seemed to hate a few of us from Day One... including me. A perfect chance to practice for dealing with difficult personalities. (I suspect there will be one or two out there in the nursing world.) An opportunity for me to act like a person of integrity and compassion. The instructor who barked at me, grabbed items out of my hand and slapped it, and generally gave me all kinds of opportunities to feel sorry for myself became one of my references for my awesome job.

[openyourmind]

Oh I totally get it now! It's not the rapist's fault you're being raped, it's your fault you are being raped. And it makes it totally okay because they are having a bad day!

Let's continue to victimize the bully and see where that gets us. ?

[SeattleJess]

:flmngmd::flmngmd::flmngmd::flmngmd::flmngmd::flmngmd::flmngmd::flmngmd::flmngmd::flmngmd::flmngmd::flmngmd::flmngmd::flmngmd::flmngmd::flmngmd::flmngmd:

Don't want to disappoint you, Kyrshamarks, so here are some flames. I enjoy strong opinions that spark discussion. Thank you for yours.