LATERAL Violence. How Nurses treat Nurses!

PrivateDuty · Jul 5, 2007

We need to all remember that we were once in that students shoes. I have time restraints also, but I have gone into a field which requires (even if not written), me to help fellow employees and potential future employees. I would expect the same help from them that they get from me.

JessicRN · Jul 5, 2007

Here's my observation...I have noticed that bullies target certain individuals, while leaving other persons alone. Unfortunately, it's all about perception. If you are perceived as one who will not stand up to the bully, you'll be targeted for further harassment. If you're perceived as someone who will put up resistance and not allow anyone to run over you, then the bully will quickly know to leave you alone.
Bullying is a crime of opportunity. Bullies tend to pick the most opportune targets: people who are less likely to respond in a defensive manner to the bullying. Also, if nothing is done, the bully will continue his/her rampage, because he/she knows that he/she can get away with it.

They taeget a person then sometimes they "convince" others to follow there lead. By convince it is basically a threat because the others know if they do not go along, she will turn on them as well. That is what happened to me.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Jul 5, 2007

Sorry she was impatient with you, but she probably doesn't want to be a nursing instructor and is frustrated with having to be one.

Then she should change careers. Sorry, but it's a part of our job to pass it on to the next generation.

FireStarterRN, BSN, RN · Jul 5, 2007

Then she should change careers. Sorry, but it's a part of our job to pass it on to the next generation.

Not everyone is cut out to be a preceptor. I know I'm not. I just don't like doing it. I don't mind answering questions, but I tend to be too easygoing with people and don't want to check up on their work. When you take on someone like a student, you have no idea their skill level, their personality, etc. and you are the responsible person, you might be very busy, and all of a sudden you have to incorporate another person into your shift, who you don't know?

My work would never force us to take a student. It's not for everyone. Some nurses just want to come on shift and do their job and don't want to deal with a student. So what?

As I said, the lady was rude but she wasn't violent, and she shouldn't be forced to take a student. She obviously didn't want to deal with it.

nanacarol · Jul 5, 2007

jlsRN, I understand the nurse described may not see herself as an instructor, but as nurses we ARE to teach, that includes student nurses and new nurses. A rose by any other name remains a rose, and the response the student received was intended to bully and intimidate the student and it did absolutely nothing to foster nursing as a profession. It is no secret that "nursing eats its young" we can't afford the attitude displayed in this time of a major Nursing shortage. If we are seen to devalue new potential nurses and students how is that raising our credibility as professional in the eyes of other disciplines? Pharmacists, psuchologists and physicians don't publicly attack each other nor do they air their dirty laundry by maligning each other in public. It is workplace violence and intimidation, it is hurtful to all.

tbinurse · Sep 7, 2007

Well...This Forum definately got my attention! I've dealt with this in a few jobs, but not all, so I do believe its the "corporate" culture and poor communication skills, not me...( but its hard to leave work after an episode not questioning). Ive been successful in some places, some I just couldn't win in and left. Any solutions, anyone?

I am considering letting Ms Critic and Crew know next time she does her thing (not quite sniping but close) that it doesn't motivate me to improve, it motivates me to quit. However I love my field, so I might want to propose she list say, 5 specific measurable areas she'd like me to change and agree to meet with me in 2-3 months for (hopefully positive) feedback, at which time she can list more "wishes". The deal is no criticism in between. Since she evidently has patient care in mind, this should satisfy us both, ( if it doesn't- she didn't have patient care in mind- aha! game called!) and I get some much needed positive feedback, not a steady diet of only criticism which is a career and morale killer. Worth a try?

Anyone read the book "Ending Nurse to Nurse Hostility" by Bartholemew? Its expensive, but might be helpful.

Considering buying it.

nanacarol · Sep 7, 2007

There are some great responses here. To those RNs who feel it is okay to be less than professional to new staff or students because "I didn't hire on to be an instructor, I have my own work to do" I say part of our individual responsibility is to educate or customers/society. That mandate does not rule out educating new staff and students. A registered nurse is a Professional, representing all other Registered Nurses, Registered Nurses in the work place are marketing agents, we either represent our profession in a manner that encourages members from society to respect us, value what we do and want to join our ranks and advocate for greater resources or we by our negative, hostile actions toward peers and new entrants communicate that we aren't a profession, we are merely task completers, doers not sharers and we don't want others to be successful in health care unless they have paid their "groveling" dues.

The list that was presented should allow all of us to be introspective and in the end mend our ways. Nurse to nurse hostility does exist, literature supports that it does. In the real world many of us who sit behind the "I'm not the instructor, or less the nurse educator do it" deny that our attitude and behavior is not a contributor to the nursing shortage and the high rate of turn over in health care.

Those who want more information on Nurse to Nurse Hostility should check the library for a copy of Barthelomew's book by the same name.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 7, 2007

I'm fortunate to, by my own personal definition, not to have been bullied or experienced lateral "violence". I do not include rude people in with bullies and violent behavior.

I have been treated less than kindly by students (yes I said students because it seems we experienced nurses are getting a lot of bashing), coworkers, other departments, MDs, etc.

I've seen rude people on the highway, in the grocery store, at the bank, in all of my other jobs.

Rude people are around us everywhere and I don't allow them to stress me out one bit. I can assertively take care of someone who is rude, or just let them be rude and go about my business without getting bent out of shape or blowing it out of proportion.

I'm not sticking my head in the sand, I know bullying is out there. I'm sorry that people have to go through this. I've been lucky so far. I was bullied as a child growing up the gay boy and believe you me it hurts to be bullied. Perhaps that's why when someone is rude I don't go screaming "Did you hear how she YELLED at me!", I can just blow it off, or I can say "Excuse me? We need to talk". :)

We individually have more power than we realize.

Medic/Nurse, BSN, RN · Sep 8, 2007

I think that many are right -

VIOLENCE, err...BAD BEHAVIOR...BULLYING...BEING RUDE....DEMEANING...ARROGANT....whatever -- are NOT exclusive to nursing. Sure, they exist in banks, law offices, supermarkets and well, everywhere.

The DIFFERENCE is that we are in the business of health. And these actions have the effect of being NEGATIVE to health - ours (nurses) and our PATIENTS.

After all - we are responsible for HUMAN LIFE. Fairly profound - if you think about it.

I could (and may) write a book on the relationships that impact nursing. I just think that it is very interesting that a professional nursing organization has actually IDENTIFIED this "subject" as an important issue. This is an issue that not only effect the profession, but has been proven to have a profound impact on PATIENTS.

I just want everyone to take a time out and really think about this - read the article. Check out the Healthy Workplace Initiatives - ask if you could benefit from improved communications at your workplace.

I attended the ENA's Leadership Conference in Boston this past February. One of the keynotes was delivered by one of the authors of the group that worked on this study for the AACN. The topic centered on Crucial Communications. The topic may seem simple, but the 2 books that they "promoted" have been among the best that I have ever read on improving communications/relationships/accountability.

The web site is http://www.vitalsmarts.com. The books were Crucial Conversations and Crucial Confrontations - I'm not "selling" you on them, just sharing that they have been very valuable additions to my library. You can also link to the AACN initiative through this website. I know that ANYTHING that allows me to improve my ability to communicate better - is well worth the effort.

I think that nursing is a difficult job in the best of circumstances. When you add any factor that allows a profession to tolerate (even perpetuate) behaviors that can be harmful - well, when that happens -- everyone loses something. And the fact is - for some the loss could be their LIFE.

EVERYONE deserves the best we have to give. (And that includes what we give to one another!).

Opinions and ideas?

Practice SAFE!

EmmaG, RN · Sep 8, 2007

has anyone had ANY experience with these behaviors (below)?
* Backstabbing, gossiping
* Belittling gestures (deliberate rolling of eyes, folding arms, staring straight ahead or "through" when communication is attempted)
* Constant criticism, scapegoating, fault-finding
* Elitist attitudes regarding work area, education, experience
* Humiliation
* Ignoring, isolation, segregation, silent treatment
* Inequitable assignments
* Inflammatory angry outbursts, impatience
* Insults, ridicule; patronizing, or condescending language or gestures
* Intimidation, threats
* Judging a person's work unjustly or in an offending manner
* Making excessive demands
* Sabotage, undermining
* Unfair evaluations of work
* Unwarranted criticism sarcasm
* Withholding information or support

My current assignment is rife with the above abuse (bolded). Honestly, I've never experienced anything quite like it. I'm a pretty easy-going person, and usually let this kind of stuff roll off my back, but I've had it. I will make certain that my recruiters and others at my own company know exactly what this place is like to work for, and I will also send a copy to the facility's administration.

Until such time that I complete this contract, I will continue to go to work and quietly do my job. I want as minimal contact with these people as possible, and when it's over, they can kiss my butt.

HM2VikingRN, RN · Sep 8, 2007

They taeget a person then sometimes they "convince" others to follow there lead. By convince it is basically a threat because the others know if they do not go along, she will turn on them as well. That is what happened to me.

What you describe is also called "mobbing." Bullying is violent by definition. When you examine the cost in lost productivity, health and damaged self esteem it is violent. I am writing a paper for Nursing research class about this topic. It is absolutely frightening the incidence of PTSD amongst victims of bullies.

81% of this kind of violence is perpetrated by supervisors.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 8, 2007

I attended the ENA's Leadership Conference in Boston this past February. One of the keynotes was delivered by one of the authors of the group that worked on this study for the AACN. The topic centered on Crucial Communications. The topic may seem simple, but the 2 books that they "promoted" have been among the best that I have ever read on improving communications/relationships/accountability.
The web site is http://www.vitalsmarts.com. The books were Crucial Conversations and Crucial Confrontations - I'm not "selling" you on them, just sharing that they have been very valuable additions to my library. You can also link to the AACN initiative through this website. I know that ANYTHING that allows me to improve my ability to communicate better - is well worth the effort.
Practice SAFE!

The book Crucial Confrontations was requireed reading in my BSN program. I second the recommendation. It really helped me a lot to understand the power that I personally possess to deal with these issues.