How to deal with the old/experienced nurses?!

[Anna-s]

Hello!

I m a new RN on A med-surge floor and most of my co-workers are old nurses that have been on that floor for years! They don't seem to like me and i have NO idea why! I am a quiet person. I mean i like to socialize but I am not that loud person ( because I still feel a stranger to the floor). Anyways some of them ignore me if I ask a question, others yell at me for the smallest mistakes ( one yelled at me cause I didn't change the NS bag that was good for another 3hours and even tho I put a new bag in the room, she wanted it change) i am nice to them! I try to talk and use humour but most of them just give me the look and roll their eye!

How should I treat them or deal with them?

[OCNRN63, RN]

Curious how the more seasoned RNs accept someone near their age that just finished ADN and is working way through a BSN. Male, "well over 39", married for over 2 decades, father of adult children we raised, and as soldier I have led men (and women too at times) in some difficult circumstances including giving orders that could cost us our lives. Degrees in philosophy (Logic concentration, minor in Math earned prior to service) and business (Organizational Leadership - earned while in service), Magna cum laude. I also recently got some non-military team leadership recently, running a technology test lab and team. My main medical experience (not as a patient) was as a volunteer CNA at the VA (skilled nursing facility, primarily elder vets and family), so I'm familiar with feeding, toileting, emesis basins, and the messier but personal side of patient care - for every time I cam home smelling like c-dff poo, there was also a feeling of accomplishment that I had gotten to help my patients. Yeah I had to drop my scrubs in the garage, and I was tired, but I felt better coming home like that than I ever did coming home from the business I was working in. I still remember the names and stories of several of my "regulars" who I talked to while providing care.

I know how to give orders, and also know how to take them - expect intelligence and initiative be taken from my orders and the intent behind them (i.e. thinking responses and actions, not robotic obedience), and I expect to give the same when given orders (especially given the intent behind them). Orders I don't like, I still "salute and execute", although I may argue for "why" so that I have proper context to provide proper actions. I dont have much of a tolerance of BS thrown at someone just because they are the FNG - a little hazing at first is OK, but it shouldnt get in the way of integrating them into the team. There's the right way, the wrong way, and how we do it here - the latter is most important to teach.

I'm pretty much the joker in the deck for you guys. How would you deal with a buzz cut older male like me coming onto the unit as a brand new RN (ADN) with more education and practical application on team formation, management and leadership than can be taught in any university course? Resources are managed, people must be lead; Follow Me (US Army, Fort Benning).

The bottom line is you are still a new grad. You may have more emotional maturity than some other new nurses, but it doesn't mean experienced staff still don't have to make sure you know what you are doing. I have seen more than one person who thought military experience substituted what was being taught in orientation and beyond.

[wooh, BSN, RN]

I've got rude coworkers, some young, some old, some experienced, some inexperienced. I've seen quite a few people though that can't take the least bit of negative feedback without feeling that it's an attack. And I've seen more than one person who take a lack of falling all over oneself to be welcoming as being rude. And really, I see way too many people who are more worried about how they're being treated than how they are treating those around them.

There's two sides to every relationship. When someone complains about their relationship with their coworkers, we're only getting the one side. Some of us are going to give the benefit of the doubt to the one complaining. Some of us are going to give the benefit of the doubt to the one being complained about. Nobody knows for sure which side is "innocent," and there's a huge possibility that perhaps both sides are innocent, there's just a misunderstanding.

I do have to think, when someone is having a problem with more than one person, that the common denominator is the someone.

And considering nobody here can change the behavior of others, pontificating about the other coworkers does nothing. Only person's behavior that OP can change is her own.

[anotherone, BSN, RN]

There is no way in **** that I can agree with this. I'm not an RN yet, but nonetheless there are certain truths that transcend professions. Why be kind to someone that goes out of their way to make you miserable? I hate when someone (who is not your boss, just a more experienced person at your job at that) has some ridiculous perceived authority over me. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for listening to what more experienced ppl have to say if they want to "Teach the new guy," but there is no way I'll allow them to disrespect me just because they think they can.

I don't believe in that "Paying your dues **** either." I go to work to do my job-whatever that job may be-PERIOD! Not to feed some coworkers ego by being their whipping boy. Most of them are bitter because they've been doing the same thing for x amt of years because A) they are not competent enough to be promoted or B) they don't have the drive to make the necessary sacrifices to educate themselves into a better position.

OP, if you try to "Kill them with kindness" then, no offense but I hope they run all over you. Again no offense is intended and I hope you fix this, but don't be WEAK, ok?

In my experience in work and other life situations. I scope out the people and usually am right about what will work with them. i have used the kill them with kindness with OBVIOUS sarcasm that may be hard to prove. They usually know it is completely fake. Also if someone is bff with management, management or high up then I do what I think is best. Kissing up to them , so be it. My pride is worth less than what I get paid to work/hr. lol

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

Yes, if someone (anyone) is having problems with most of their coworkers it's far more likely the problem is with that person, not everyone else. Even if said person *does* just work with a bunch of meanies (doubtful), they should still consider adjusting their behavior to fit in with the majority. That's really just a part of being an adult and having a job where you work with other people.

[metal_m0nk, BSN, RN]

The bottom line is you are still a new grad. You may have more emotional maturity than some other new nurses, but it doesn't mean experienced staff still don't have to make sure you know what you are doing. I have seen more than one person who thought military experience substituted what was being taught in orientation and beyond.

My guess is that based on your post, things could be..."interesting."

True enough.

However, the reality that a new grad is inexperienced and has the potential to make dangerous mistakes ought to be measured with the understanding that having experience doesn't give cart blanche to abuse the authority that experience affords - whether that be by intentionally abandoning the responsibility of treating people with dignity and respect over some personal glorification of militaristic teaching, jeopardizing another person's livelihood over some perceived slight or some other obvious misuse.

It is my opinion that experienced nurses who train new nurses NOT to question their authority (or not to question anything at all) through threats, intimidation, and psychosocial game playing are creating nurses who are incapable of proper patient advocacy and nurse advocacy and furthermore, strip them of the tools they will need to develop trust in their own instincts, which in the long run predicates a career long risk of harm to patients rather than a temporary one.

A healthy challenging of authority should be honed - not stamped out because it offends an experienced nurse's fragile ego.

[metal_m0nk, BSN, RN]

I do have to think, when someone is having a problem with more than one person, that the common denominator is the someone.

Or it could be another plausible explanation...

That someone could be challenging a status quo that you and the others around you have accepted for whatever reasons - fear of being treated the way you treat that someone who challenges it, retaining some individual advantage that the status quo provides, or because you're just too deep in it to see it for what it is.

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

Honestly, I think nursing could only benefit from having more of a "militaristic" structure. A system of ranks (beyond the obvious LPN/RN) that's based on experience and merit is a good idea. I'm sorry, but less experienced nurses *should* be subordinate to more experienced ones. At least to some degree.

[metal_m0nk, BSN, RN]

Honestly, I think nursing could only benefit from having more of a "militaristic" structure. A system of ranks (beyond the obvious LPN/RN) that's based on experience and merit is a good idea. I'm sorry, but less experienced nurses *should* be subordinate to more experienced ones. At least to some degree.

Yes, that's a given.

The problem lies in execution. There are far too many who are not effective leaders and who abuse their authority for personal reasons.

The military trains their ranking members in the tenets of leadership that are appropriate for the responsibilities and objectives that follow. Does nursing? Not that I know of. Leaders are selected, often times based on arbitrary criteria and expected to perform the job untrained and unskilled in the tenets of effective leadership.

And then to top it all off, their inadequacies are blamed on the newbies. So they can cover their butts with management. When really, they should be advocating for proper leadership training in the first place. It's like a freaking cancer that just grows and spreads.

[OCNRN63, RN]

True enough.

However, the reality that a new grad is inexperienced and has the potential to make dangerous mistakes ought to be measured with the understanding that having experience doesn't give cart blanche to abuse the authority that experience affords - whether that be by intentionally abandoning the responsibility of treating people with dignity and respect over some personal glorification of militaristic teaching, jeopardizing another person's livelihood over some perceived slight or some other obvious misuse.

It is my opinion that experienced nurses who train new nurses NOT to question their authority (or not to question anything at all) through threats, intimidation, and psychosocial game playing are creating nurses who are incapable of proper patient advocacy and nurse advocacy and furthermore, strip them of the tools they will need to develop trust in their own instincts, which in the long run predicates a career long risk of harm to patients rather than a temporary one.

A healthy challenging of authority should be honed - not stamped out because it offends an experienced nurse's fragile ego.

I'm not sure you read my post correctly.

[metal_m0nk, BSN, RN]

I'm not sure you read my post correctly.

I think I did.

It seemed that the gentleman whose post you were referencing was making the point that the life experiences that inform a new nurse's aptitude should be considered and integrated into their training as a new nurse. Namely, that a one-size-fits-all approach to training is not necessarily effective or warranted.

What you seemed to take away from his comments was that he was the type who is certain that he would not require thorough training or supervision because of his background and experience - since it is something you have perceived (rightly or wrongly, I don't know) in your interactions with certain types of new nurses.

I used the exchange as a platform to express my thoughts on the one-size-fits-all training strategies used in nursing and also to highlight how that one-size-fits-all approach is often misused (sometimes to the extreme) and excused.

[anotherone, BSN, RN]

Sometimes more experience is just a longer time doing things incorrectly. I have seen that plenty of times.

[OCNRN63, RN]

I think I did.

It seemed that the gentleman whose post you were referencing was making the point that the life experiences that inform a new nurse's aptitude should be considered and integrated into their training as a new nurse.

What you seemed to take away from his comments was that he was the type who is certain that he would not require thorough training or supervision because of his background and experience - since it is something you have perceived (rightly or wrongly, I don't know) in your interactions with certain types of new nurses.

I used the exchange as a platform to express my thoughts on the one-size-fits-all training strategies used in nursing and also to highlight how that one-size-fits-all approach is often misused and excused.

What I said was that while some of those experiences may stand him in good stead, they don't make him/her any less a new grad. Perhaps after assessing the individual's expertise level the preceptor can move the orientee move up the ranks more quickly than the average new nurse, but that has to do the individual.