Male nursing and needing chaperone

[Sirkraker]

So my hospital just released a new policy stating that all male team members (including nurses) must have a female present when your patient is female and you are going to be behind a closed door or curtain. Any violation results in termination This is crazy when it comes to taking care of my patients, medicating my patients, ect. We never have enough help, so looks like patient privacy is out the door for my patients. but of course physicians and advanced practitioners are exempt. What are my fellow male nurses think about this new policy. Is this not discrimination? Shouldn't it be vise versa for the females?

[elkpark]

Elkpark while I understand your point, I think the other part of this would have to be, would a male gyn using a male for a chaperone-observer whatever you want to call them be acceptable. The point is, a female Dr. feels it is just fine to bring a second female in for male patients, but the reverse would not be accepted, thus the double standard even in this case is apparent, and extends beyond male nurses to include male patients.

It would be fine with me (having a male chaperone) -- I would consider it equally as useless/meaningless as having a female chaperone, but, if the physician insists on having a chaperone present, it wouldn't make any difference to me whether it was a male or female staff member standing on the other side of the room. Again, a competent physician/provider doesn't unnecessarily or excessively expose a client during a physical exam, pelvice exam, etc., so there wouldn't be much for the "chaperone" to see.

But then, I don't understand the whole obsession with providers' genders in the first place.

[middleager]

I think the attitude toward the gender of the provider is really a personal thing and has a lot of similarities with religous preference. Religion instills certain beliefs in people that may not scientifically make sense, our upbringing and life experiences do the same thing. Obviously you were brought up in an environment that did not instill a high level of modesty ( I do not mean that negatively at all, I wish I were more like that), paticularly when it comes to healthcare, or you developed that on your own. Others may have been brought up to be embarressed in these situations with the opposite gender and the medical arena was not seperated from that socialization. I applaud you for being able to not let it bother you, life has to be easier. But when one looks at the original issue in general, requiring male nusrses, but not female nurses to have chaperones for opposite gender care is sexist on a very obvious level. A facility going down that path does a disservice to not only those nurses, but male nurses in general. There ususally is a price to pay for fighting established discrimination. The original civil rights activists paid a heavy price for fighting what we not look on as incredibly wrong treatment, women who lead the equal rights charge were often the targets of attacks for what we now acknowledge were ridiculous practices and attitudes. The facility is supporting discrimination against these nurses rather than take the risk of paying the price to help change the obvious wrong, shame on them. Contrary to some of the posts, men can sue for discrimination the same as females. While not a "protected" class, the discrimination laws are applied across gender lines in court. Point it out, if it doesn't change I hope all of the nurses male and female will join in supporting the male nurses in or out of court.

[corbinRN]

I am a male nurse and I never get someone to come in the room with me during patient care unless there is a reason that I need help. In my opinion, if they make men take females in pt rooms with them, then they should also make women take men in the room with them and how do they know who is gay or lesbian? A gay male nurse could just as well "do something" to a male pt.

This is stupid. I do, however, believe that, if after assessing the situation, you feel like you might need a "chaperon," then take one with you!

So, if someone is going to lie to try to sue you, then they are going to lie no matter if you take someone in the room with you or not. They can always say that you came back in the room later (after the chaperon left) and did something with them. If they're gonna lie, they're gonna lie.

This shouldn't be an issue.

[zone9]

http://www.outpatientsurgery.net/resources/forms/2010/pdf/OutpatientSurgeryMagazine_1001_ent.pdf

[CaDad]

You hit on a very uneasy and difficult subject that has been discussed in several other blogs, both from the pt's perspective and of course the nurse or murse's perspective.

PT perspective: Some don't care, usually because they have ongoing, continued interaction with all members of the Care staff, Doctors, interns, Nurses, Murses, ETC. The have been desensitized to modesty issues because of their situation.

New PT.s, those who rarely if ever interact with the medical profession are not sensitized and more often than not have issues with their modesty, which the medical staff in general finds irritating, since they have seen it all anyways.

So at the end of the day, especially when a pt has not been consulted about issues like this, you can make yourself at risk for some pretty unpleasant times if you don't follow the procedure. I think that males pt's should have a male nurse present when a female medical; person is administering care, just like female pt's have female nurses when a male administers medical care.

[middleager]

The link posted by zone9 is very disturbing and telling for several reasons, while not related to this thread directly, firing the nurse who was a hero in this story, while keeping the Dr. was ridiculous, and they wonder why Nurses feel like they are treated like 2nd class citizens at many hospitals. The other thing it shows is why there is a discrepancy in how male and female nurses are treated in this rule. The whole issue of how violation of female modesty is viewed more seriously than males. While it would be hard to argue male nurses are more at risk from being unjustly accused, when there is a violation it is not taken as seriously when the violator is female and the patient male. If a male ENT was doing lady partsl exams on female paitents, smacking a female patients lady parts and saying bad girl, bad girl, to the amusement of an all male OR staff...would the hospital still employ them. This went on for years. Society in general just doesn't have as much concern for male modesty. As stated I fully realize male nurses are at a higher risk of being accused, but it is part of a larger issue. It is discrimination against these medical professionals, if the facility expects patients to trust nurses as professional, as they should, the facility needs to treat them like professionals as well.

[just4]

Where I work there is no staff available to cater to modesty. I insert and remove urinary catheters all day on men and women. My colleagues are equally busy and we have no time to drag each other around just to stand and watch based on gender preferences. Perhaps it is because I work in a country with socialized medicine, but we have 4 patients in one room and gender is not even considered in assigning patients to a room.

[Cul2]

"Where I work there is no staff available to cater to modesty. I insert and remove urinary catheters all day on men and women. My colleagues are equally busy and we have no time to drag each other around just to stand and watch based on gender preferences. Perhaps it is because I work in a country with socialized medicine, but we have 4 patients in one room and gender is not even considered in assigning patients to a room."

Your vocabulary is revealing -- "cater to modesty," as if it's not somehow related to respect and dignity.

"Drag each other around..." "just to stand and watch..." Granted, your system seems under stress,

short staffed, etc. That may be the fact, the reality -- but it doesn't justify the lack of dignity some patients

may feel. You're give us reasons. That's fine. Just don't consider those reasons excuses for not living up

to basic ethical standards about how human beings should be treated. It's easy to justify ignoring this issue

when your under stress like that. But it's also easy to just give up and say nothing can be done, it's impossible,

there's no way we can accommodate, or even try.

[just4]

I'm not making excuses, I am stating facts. In an ideal world all health care would be free and there would be enough staff to cater to all of the patients' physical and emotional needs. Every hospital would have the latest machines, an unlimited supply of blood and transplant organs, and all patients could receive the latest drugs, no matter what the cost. The reality is that no country offers that and everywhere the world governments are in debt and are cutting back on health spending. Conditions are worsened by a large increase in the aging population without a comparable increase in health services available.

It's not a question of giving up, but what can any single nurse do? Think of it as triage in an emergency situation. We deal with the most critical physical symptoms first. Most of our hospitals are operating at beyond capacity. Patients spend days in ER because there are no beds available on the units. Once a patients is discharged another one is admitted almost immediately. Say one woman patient feels that sharing a room with 3 male patients is insulting her dignity. Should my hospital deny a bed to the 3 males patients? Personally I often forego breaks because there is not enough time to chart, administer medications, take vital signs, and so forth, and many of my male and female colleagues do the same. I imagine that is the reality of most trauma centers.

[Cul2]

just4

What can I say? Within the conditions you describe, you're absolutely correct. Within those conditions

you need to try to treat people with as much dignity as possible with your focus on saving lives. When I

advocate for gender choice, modesty accommodation, I'm not talking about the extreme conditions you

describe. I'm sure you're doing the best you can. Glad there are people like you doing work like you do.

[just4]

Unfortnately it is even worse than I describe. I limited myself to the hospital environment. However, in my province 2 million people have no family doctor because there are not enough of them. Patients can try to go to clinics or ER rooms if they have symptoms but they are not getting proactive screenings for critical conditions. The family doctors are underpaid and overhwhelmed. Many of them work into their eighties and nurses are getting $8K bonuses to delay their retirement. I am guessing that if you were to insist to one of these old time family doctor that someone else be present during and exam you would probably end up as one of the 2 million, without any doctor. Of course there is not even a sign up or a waiting list to get assigned to any available doctor. Such a list would force the government to admit there is a problem...Recently there was a raffle to raise money for some charity. The big prize was one assignment to one family doctor.

[exit96]

Ridiculous!!!!!!!!! Double Standard all the way!!!