With all due respect, it's clear you actually haven't worked psych if you think there's no nursing skills involved in it.
There may not be the medical ICU skills that you're used to, but there's a lot of skill involved in maintaining a therapeutic milieu full of patients with various psychiatric diagnoses at all levels of acuity, and in deescalating patients while maintaining their safety, dignity and rights...as well as keeping yourself and everyone else in the milieu safe. That takes quite a bit of knowledge and skill, a lot of which only comes with experience working in psych.
Also, it's one thing to read in a textbook about a patient with bipolar disorder or schizophrenia or other psychiatric disorders. To actually manage patients with these conditions--and manage them in numbers--is another. I'm sure you've had some patients with psychiatric disorders--after all, psych patients are everywhere. But you've also had them in a medical setting where the focus is on their medical concerns, and any psychiatric problems are pretty much handled by choosing between Ativan or Geodon. It's very different when the psych disorders are the focus of their treatment...and the answer to the problem is not necessarily an IM.
And while the LVNs are giving the medications, guess who's responsible for the LVNs? That's right, you as the RN. So a knowledge of--and experience adminstering--psychotropic medications is also necessary.
I've seen nurses brought to tears because they couldn't handle the psych unit. They realized that psych is not just drug-them-up-and-babysit the patients, or sitting in the group room playing cards with them every day. I worked with one nurse who would lock herself in the med room and cry during most shifts (she was 10+ years' experienced as a nurse but new to psych...she also didn't last very long).
I sincerely wish you the best of luck at the new job. If you are wise, you will rely on your sister as a resource as you start out. I'd also be interested in hearing an update after a few months of your actually working in the specialty. I'd bet that your perspective will be different.
Several people here seem to place a negative connotation on fitting in and on the culture of a nursing unit. This is not always the case. A nurse who feels that the aides are there only to take orders would not fit in on a floor where there is more of a teamwork culture between all staff. And an older nurse who feels entitled to the best shifts would not fit into a floor where the culture is that everyone works their share of off shifts. I know the culture on my unit very well. The staff is diverse, but cohesive. It would be irresponsible of me to bring a new hire onto the unit who might disrupt this cohesiveness.
I would like to reiterate that by automatically eliminating "job-hoppers," you may be overlooking precisely the kinds of people that you're looking for... ones who have much experience at integrating themselves into an existing culture.
I recently had an interview where I said, "It's my job to integrate myself into the existing culture - something which I've successfully done several times. It's not the culture's responsibility to change itself on my behalf." I'm not even sure what prompted that statement by me but it was sincere - and backed up by personal anecdotes and references. Had I been screened out simply on work history on my resume, we'd never have arrived at that point.
Some of us job-hop of necessity - and hate having had to do so. Just because one has had many short-term jobs doesn't mean that one is a poor worker or has difficulty 'playing with others.' Or maybe it does and I just happen to be a rare exception.
Anyway, given your difficulty in finding good candidates with your present screening criteria, perhaps you should try to look at some job-hoppers with a new perspective. You might find some gems in there.
Are you suggesting I just pick anyone and then terminate them after the probationary period if they don't work out? This is wrong in so many ways. How would a new grad feel about being fired at the end of their probationary period, and then discovering that I just picked them out and didn't evaluate their skills and suitability for the position? I would think that this would be more devastating than not getting hired at all. Do you think it is fair to established staff to have them put the time and effort into orienting a new person, only to have to do it all over again in six months because I just picked someone? And this is completely irresponsible from a finanacial viewpoint. Depending on the statistics you read, it can cost $30,000 or more to orient a new GN. If I were to be hiring someone new every six months because of this kind of hiring practice, I would be looking for a new job.
Well speaking from experience a interview is not a true assessment of someones skills. People are usually very nervous during interviews, especially New Grads. Give them a break and go with your gut and just pick one! Isn't that what a probationary period is for! Some people have carisma and some don't does that tell you their nursing skills no I don't think so.....
I am not the best at interviews but I am an awesome employee! I hear it from my co workers and supervisors all of the time. The ones that are usually hired over me at other jobs that I've had interviews for are sometimes terrific interviewees. They know how to sell theirselves and get the job but are usually lazy and not good to work with. I am not a marketer, I am a nurse.
I go to interviews with my best dress suit on. Smiling. Shaking hands. Taking the initiative to introduce myself. I bring perfect attendance awards, letters of recommendation, long work history at no more than 2 jobs and I answer questions to the best of my ability. Still I dont get an offer. My friends with more experience usually get the job over me. They also usually quit after a few months.
Interviewers should stop judging by 100% the interview skills and give the ones with potential a try. My old boss told me that I sucked at the interview but they needed staff badly so they gave me the job. 3 years later I'm still here, 2 perfect attendance awards, no call outs, work 70 hours a week when helping out when short staffed, no write ups, no issues w/ staff, and families love me. My boss also said that I am a hard worker and a good kid. Lucky me!
I don't think anyone is meaning to sound ungrateful. I think some of us are just surprised and maybe a bit discouraged at how easily you can be cast aside. I'm really enjoying this thread and am really grateful for the advice, insights and discussion. I will no longer be showing up thirty minutes early for a job interview, that's for sure!
I think a lot of excellent nurses are missing out on great opportunities over things like having a student e-mail on their resume, but at the same time I understand that companies have so many applications to get through. They have to have criteria for weeding them down. All you can do is is try to stack the deck in your favor as much as possible.
I don't think I can ever view interviews and job hunting as "fun", but like many vital nursing tasks that aren't "fun" they can be seen as an important skill that you can hone to improve pt care.
I am shocked and dismayed by how many people seem to want to argue about the standards some managers use to choose their applicants. Here we're all offered an inside look at the hiring process and given some quite specific dos and don'ts. It seems as though people would be grateful for the information; instead they want to debate about whether or not appropriate dress or good grammar SHOULD be important.
Whether or not you agree with the managers' criteria for choosing and hiring nurses, those are the criteria. Why not just polish up your resume and interviewing skills rather than insisting that the criteria are wrong?
Do you go out of your way to miss the relevant, however much, tangential points. This discussion and change. If you don't think we all, regardless of how stations, don't have something to learn, all I can say is wow.
No one is condemning the NM. I've agreed with her for the most part. Geez put another perspective on things, and wow. BTW, I see most of the responders are appreciative of the information, and others of us have been around the block and pretty much are aware of them.
And yes, I still can't get over the person that came to an interview in pjs. I can't believe people would come to an interview in jeans. I think people need to start reading up on this whole interviewing process if they are that daft about what is expected. When I was in high school, I applied for a job as NA in a nursing home. I was in a suit and looked quiet professional. My parents had good sense, but I also couldn't see going for an interview in jeans, even as a kids, much less in pjs. lol
BUT I have seen the less-than-intelligent get hired because they bring food to an interview...
Less intelligent? LOL, sounds like someone was smarter than you think! <disclaimer: I've yet to have anyone bring me food for an interview...and honestly, it's unprofessional, and would probably zero out the candidate as a Butt Kisser if I was interviewing him.>
... or literally buy their way into a position.
Literally? Ok, so what's the going rate for a position nowadays? Something tells me I've been WAY undercharging....
Well speaking from experience a interview is not a true assessment of someones skills. People are usually very nervous during interviews, especially New Grads. Give them a break and go with your gut and just pick one! Isn't that what a probationary period is for! Some people have carisma and some don't does that tell you their nursing skills no I don't think so.....
Dear Samadams8 -- I'm interested in you comments above, especially "looks good on the surface, but it's toxic underneath" and need for "objective evaluation of nurses during orientation, understanding how to teach adult learners and mentor nurses, etc." I'm interested in what you know about turnover among orientees, too. Having just gone through a difficult orientation, I want to know more about what others have experienced and how to improve the transition from new grad to successful nurse. I've been reading everything I can find on the subject. Any suggestions for sources? Thanks!
OK, well, here's a dissertation, that is well worth reading, on the kind of violence in which I have been discussing. Russell (2012) discusses a theoretical model that helps to create healthier work environments for nurses. She (as well as other research I have combed through) discusses the implications and consequences of allowing the negative behaviors to continued without remedy--including mistakes and negative or sub-optimal outcomes for patients. Give it a read. I have more information, but I will start with Russell's thesis (2012).
Please keep in mind that it's not just a problem for new graduates, but for many new hires, and even for nurses that are established within hospitals or units.
The first priority is to establish awareness and acceptance. Russel (2012) used a survey of nurses as well as CNAs. Take a look at it and her appendices.
Of course the incredible irony is that nursing is to be a caring profession. I do believe there are many in nursing that are caring, but something is very wrong about many unit "cultures" and work environments--the social dynamics in so many places are problematic. It's the height of hypocrisy to tout compassion and caring towards patients and families, and then to ignore employing these same qualities with each other as nurses.
We will only begin to change this if we are open to learn about this kind of violence and accept its existence. We have all heard the well meaning statements of "Stop using the expression 'nurses eat their young.'" OK. So people don't like that way of expressing what's going on, but it doesn't stop the reality of its existence.
Nurses don't simply eat their young, they often "eat" each other--or those that don't fit into a certain mold--or those they deem as some threat, or whomever for whatever reasons. Regardless of the reasons, beyond the lack of professionalism such behaviors demonstrate, these negative behaviors seriously undermine nursing as an agency of care.
Remember not everyone was taking the NCLEX there are a number of different exams that PearsonVue administers at the same time. I'm guessing that the guy who punched the computer screen may have some issues....especially if there was some property damage done. I understand frustration but we all need to be professional (regardless if he was a NCLEX candidate or a candidate for another exam) and learn to control our frustrations....
First, give yourself time to adjust to the night shift, most people don't like it, but you must remember, most of us started where you are, and you must pay your dues.
I couldn't disagree more -- there are many shifts in many hospitals available to new grads other than night shift. I know some people who have tried to work night shift and end up getting sick all the time. Some people just physically cannot work night shift and as far as paying dues - in my opionion - working day or evening shift you are paying double dues!
I have worked both shifts. With day shift, the job is definitely crazier, but the rest of your life is pretty normal. With night shift, your whole world is upside-down.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you seriously need to get educated! I am quite compatible with nearly everyone I meet, ask any of my zillions of friends! Thanks for the laugh!
I don't think she meant not compatible with society socially... but rather you don't do your errands, appointments, phone calls, gym, etc, during the day like the rest of the world... and the rest of the world never seems to understand no matter how many times you remind them.
I worked nights for about 6 months once upon a time. At the time, I did it to make the extra money. But I never was able to adjust my sleeping habits so that I could the 8 hours of sleep I have to have. Then I got a horrible cold, even worse cough (so bad I broke a rib) and probably it was pneumonia. I just didn't have the ability to fight it off in a normal way. My DH finally told me that if there were no eves (my preferred shift) available, then I had to look at another facility. So I fully appreciate night nurses....and thank you for reminding me to tell them more often.
With all due respect, it's clear you actually haven't worked psych if you think there's no nursing skills involved in it.
There may not be the medical ICU skills that you're used to, but there's a lot of skill involved in maintaining a therapeutic milieu full of patients with various psychiatric diagnoses at all levels of acuity, and in deescalating patients while maintaining their safety, dignity and rights...as well as keeping yourself and everyone else in the milieu safe. That takes quite a bit of knowledge and skill, a lot of which only comes with experience working in psych.
Also, it's one thing to read in a textbook about a patient with bipolar disorder or schizophrenia or other psychiatric disorders. To actually manage patients with these conditions--and manage them in numbers--is another. I'm sure you've had some patients with psychiatric disorders--after all, psych patients are everywhere. But you've also had them in a medical setting where the focus is on their medical concerns, and any psychiatric problems are pretty much handled by choosing between Ativan or Geodon. It's very different when the psych disorders are the focus of their treatment...and the answer to the problem is not necessarily an IM.
And while the LVNs are giving the medications, guess who's responsible for the LVNs? That's right, you as the RN. So a knowledge of--and experience adminstering--psychotropic medications is also necessary.
I've seen nurses brought to tears because they couldn't handle the psych unit. They realized that psych is not just drug-them-up-and-babysit the patients, or sitting in the group room playing cards with them every day. I worked with one nurse who would lock herself in the med room and cry during most shifts (she was 10+ years' experienced as a nurse but new to psych...she also didn't last very long).
I sincerely wish you the best of luck at the new job. If you are wise, you will rely on your sister as a resource as you start out. I'd also be interested in hearing an update after a few months of your actually working in the specialty. I'd bet that your perspective will be different.
I recently had an interview where I said, "It's my job to integrate myself into the existing culture - something which I've successfully done several times. It's not the culture's responsibility to change itself on my behalf." I'm not even sure what prompted that statement by me but it was sincere - and backed up by personal anecdotes and references. Had I been screened out simply on work history on my resume, we'd never have arrived at that point.
Some of us job-hop of necessity - and hate having had to do so. Just because one has had many short-term jobs doesn't mean that one is a poor worker or has difficulty 'playing with others.' Or maybe it does and I just happen to be a rare exception.
Anyway, given your difficulty in finding good candidates with your present screening criteria, perhaps you should try to look at some job-hoppers with a new perspective. You might find some gems in there.
Are you suggesting I just pick anyone and then terminate them after the probationary period if they don't work out? This is wrong in so many ways. How would a new grad feel about being fired at the end of their probationary period, and then discovering that I just picked them out and didn't evaluate their skills and suitability for the position? I would think that this would be more devastating than not getting hired at all. Do you think it is fair to established staff to have them put the time and effort into orienting a new person, only to have to do it all over again in six months because I just picked someone? And this is completely irresponsible from a finanacial viewpoint. Depending on the statistics you read, it can cost $30,000 or more to orient a new GN. If I were to be hiring someone new every six months because of this kind of hiring practice, I would be looking for a new job.
I am not the best at interviews but I am an awesome employee! I hear it from my co workers and supervisors all of the time. The ones that are usually hired over me at other jobs that I've had interviews for are sometimes terrific interviewees. They know how to sell theirselves and get the job but are usually lazy and not good to work with. I am not a marketer, I am a nurse.
I go to interviews with my best dress suit on. Smiling. Shaking hands. Taking the initiative to introduce myself. I bring perfect attendance awards, letters of recommendation, long work history at no more than 2 jobs and I answer questions to the best of my ability. Still I dont get an offer. My friends with more experience usually get the job over me. They also usually quit after a few months.
Interviewers should stop judging by 100% the interview skills and give the ones with potential a try. My old boss told me that I sucked at the interview but they needed staff badly so they gave me the job. 3 years later I'm still here, 2 perfect attendance awards, no call outs, work 70 hours a week when helping out when short staffed, no write ups, no issues w/ staff, and families love me. My boss also said that I am a hard worker and a good kid. Lucky me!
I don't think anyone is meaning to sound ungrateful. I think some of us are just surprised and maybe a bit discouraged at how easily you can be cast aside. I'm really enjoying this thread and am really grateful for the advice, insights and discussion. I will no longer be showing up thirty minutes early for a job interview, that's for sure!
I think a lot of excellent nurses are missing out on great opportunities over things like having a student e-mail on their resume, but at the same time I understand that companies have so many applications to get through. They have to have criteria for weeding them down. All you can do is is try to stack the deck in your favor as much as possible.
I don't think I can ever view interviews and job hunting as "fun", but like many vital nursing tasks that aren't "fun" they can be seen as an important skill that you can hone to improve pt care.
No one is condemning the NM. I've agreed with her for the most part. Geez put another perspective on things, and wow. BTW, I see most of the responders are appreciative of the information, and others of us have been around the block and pretty much are aware of them.
And yes, I still can't get over the person that came to an interview in pjs. I can't believe people would come to an interview in jeans. I think people need to start reading up on this whole interviewing process if they are that daft about what is expected. When I was in high school, I applied for a job as NA in a nursing home. I was in a suit and looked quiet professional. My parents had good sense, but I also couldn't see going for an interview in jeans, even as a kids, much less in pjs. lol
Well speaking from experience a interview is not a true assessment of someones skills. People are usually very nervous during interviews, especially New Grads. Give them a break and go with your gut and just pick one! Isn't that what a probationary period is for! Some people have carisma and some don't does that tell you their nursing skills no I don't think so.....
https://csusm-dspace.calstate.edu/bi...pdf?sequence=2
Please keep in mind that it's not just a problem for new graduates, but for many new hires, and even for nurses that are established within hospitals or units.
The first priority is to establish awareness and acceptance. Russel (2012) used a survey of nurses as well as CNAs. Take a look at it and her appendices.
Of course the incredible irony is that nursing is to be a caring profession. I do believe there are many in nursing that are caring, but something is very wrong about many unit "cultures" and work environments--the social dynamics in so many places are problematic. It's the height of hypocrisy to tout compassion and caring towards patients and families, and then to ignore employing these same qualities with each other as nurses.
We will only begin to change this if we are open to learn about this kind of violence and accept its existence. We have all heard the well meaning statements of "Stop using the expression 'nurses eat their young.'" OK. So people don't like that way of expressing what's going on, but it doesn't stop the reality of its existence.
Nurses don't simply eat their young, they often "eat" each other--or those that don't fit into a certain mold--or those they deem as some threat, or whomever for whatever reasons. Regardless of the reasons, beyond the lack of professionalism such behaviors demonstrate, these negative behaviors seriously undermine nursing as an agency of care.
There are tons of websites for this. You literally just have to type in "weighted grade calculator".
PS get ready for a lot of people to be annoyed/angry with your post.
Remember not everyone was taking the NCLEX there are a number of different exams that PearsonVue administers at the same time. I'm guessing that the guy who punched the computer screen may have some issues....especially if there was some property damage done. I understand frustration but we all need to be professional (regardless if he was a NCLEX candidate or a candidate for another exam) and learn to control our frustrations....
I have worked both shifts. With day shift, the job is definitely crazier, but the rest of your life is pretty normal. With night shift, your whole world is upside-down.
I worked nights for about 6 months once upon a time. At the time, I did it to make the extra money. But I never was able to adjust my sleeping habits so that I could the 8 hours of sleep I have to have. Then I got a horrible cold, even worse cough (so bad I broke a rib) and probably it was pneumonia. I just didn't have the ability to fight it off in a normal way. My DH finally told me that if there were no eves (my preferred shift) available, then I had to look at another facility. So I fully appreciate night nurses....and thank you for reminding me to tell them more often.