MGH is offering new grad ICU internship for $11.44 an hour?

goodgrief · Feb 16, 2011

As a new grad, I can see the justice of them paying you $11.44/hr, ESPECIALLY if they don't make you sign a 2-year contract!!

I don't care what program you attended, you cannot function at the same level of an experienced RN in an ICU setting as a new grad! PERIOD! END OF STORY! I don't care how many ICU clinical hours you got in your BSN program, those hours weren't completely autonomous as a student. I got TONS of hours as a student, an ICU course, plus I did my capstone in ICU with 300+ hours, and I still felt like an idiot going into ICU as a new grad. During your first several months you'll require an experienced RN at your side making sure you don't kill someone; that's double pay if they're paying you full salary and the other RN.

If you don't like it, don't go into an ICU as a new grad. Personally, I went into an ICU as a new grad and am completely grateful for the residency experience I was able to obtain and have an experienced RN at my side. There is a nursing shortage, but unfortunately, there will probably never be a shortage of people who want to work in highly critical settings (ICU, ER, etc). If you want to fill a gap of the nursing shortage, go to a nursing home where you can use all the skills you learned as a student, but as for ICU, if you really want ICU, then you'll have to make sacrifices to get there.

If you want full salary in the ICU, go to the Cleveland Clinic and work in their Cardiovascular ICU. You'll take 2 fresh open hearts every day. They pay new grads full salary, give you a 4 month orientation with an experienced preceptor, no contract, and you're a CVICU RN in the end with excellent experience from the #1 ranked heart hospital in the nation. That's what I did and now I'm in a top-ranked nurse anesthesia school.

But please, stop your damn whining and negativity. If you want ICU, be positive and go for it, whether at MGH for less money, or somewhere else for more. Somewhere else for more $$ might mean that you don't get as good experiences as you would at MGH. Trust me, a regional hospital's ICU is nothing (acuity-wise) compared to a big name hospital's ICU. If you don't want ICU and you're not willing to make the sacrifices to get there, then don't complain b/c there are others willing to take it; and for less pay and worse working conditions.

joanna73, BSN, RN · Feb 16, 2011

Regardless of the fact that this is a new grad initiative, that level of pay is outrageous! CNA's here make 20.00 per hour where I am, and new grads are paid between 26 and 34 dollars per hour. I could go to work at The Gap for a higher wage. And after four years to obtain a BSN, 11.44 per hour is not acceptable, in my opinion. Even if these people are hired on, the "training" wage is totally taking advantage of a desperate situation. Just terrible to liken nursing to a retail worker, IMO.

shah · Feb 16, 2011

I would jump at that opportunity. It is true that they are balatantly taking advantage of you. It is true that you will be extremely marketable after the 6 months. Just jump ship if they don't offer you a job. You could work anywhere else at at least 3 times the salary, once the 6 months are over.

shah · Feb 16, 2011

Go for MGH. If nothing, it will add to your resume. You could always go back to working for crappy agencies, but it is not the other way. Remember, internships are once in a lifetime. If you miss the bus, you have to walk.

So here's the deal. I am fortunate enough to be the canary in the coalmine for this debate. In fact I logged on to allnurses to see if the topic had come up (YES! And then some ;-) and read what people are posting.
Two things happened to me last week. I was offered a permanent full time position in an area of nursing I love that is not in a hospital and this company has accepted me as a new grad based on my qualifications and experience. They are making an exception for me as this position is posted as requiring 3 years of experience in this field. My initial hourly wage will be $28 plus benefits which is slightly less than I make now doing private duty. And way more than I make a school nurse sub. The other thing that happened to me last week is that I was granted the opportunity to interview for the new grad position at MGH which I did last Saturday. My interview went really well. I actually had a personal connection to the nurse manager I interviewed with and I believe that the there is a very strong possibility that I will be offered a residency slot.
So I have a terrible choice to make--accept a wonderful job that will provide me with great support and training in a specialized area--I will learn many skills and procedures that are involved in acute care but I will not have hospital nursing experience. If I choose to leave this field, even as an experienced nurse, I will never be able to put "med/surg" or "critical care" on my resume.
Or, do I bite the bullet and take the MGH position if offered, and gather all the skills and training and gamble with being offered a job in 6 months?(By the way, 5 eight hours shifts that rotate between nights and weekends does not qualify as a "horrible" schedule in my book). Assuming I successfully complete the program, I will have qualifications that will enable to work in any hospital setting, including the ED which has been a dream of mine.
I really do have to gamble and choose--my orientation for the new position starts next Monday, and I know my contract letter will be in the mail today. Do I sign it and make the choice after I hear from MGH in the next 2 weeks? I won't be that deep into my orientation, but I will be saying to an employer that I don't intend to fulfill my commitment and why. The point is, I feel like I need to go forward with the new job but leave it IF I decide to go to MGH.
I should add that I was offered a job recently by a home care agency that specialized in skilled nursing for critically ill children. When I was doing the paperwork, I came upon a contract that stated if I left voluntarily before 1 year of employment, I would be responsible for paying back the agency $5000 within 60 days of my voluntary termination. And I can tell you; this company advertises the fact that they will take new grads. Needless to say, I am NOT working for them. Beware of places that are eager to take you on as a new grad regardless of experience.
Anyway, I am very torn, but based on the discussion on this board; I am leaning towards taking the "real" job. It is where my heart is telling me to go. But I'd like to hear from you....

goodgrief · Feb 16, 2011

So then go to The Gap or wherever they're paying new grads $26-$34/hr, don't get the excellent ICU experience MGH is offering.

You don't see MD residents complaining about their low pay and having to staff the hospital 80 hours/week. They're mostly just happy they were accepted for a residency.

Be lucky they're paying anything at all for training! $11.44 is very acceptable with your lack of experience as a new grad and your need to constantly have another fully-paid RN at your side to make sure you don't kill someone.

I've seen plenty of new grads come in thinking they're hot shots b/c they did their capstone on ICU and then they end up hurting some patient that trusted in them for safe care. Take it or leave it, but quit complaining b/c there are plenty of people who will take these positions, be extremely happy, and never complain.

Good luck at The Gap

HangInThere, BSN, RN · Feb 16, 2011

Wow. Hot topic! If I applied for this internship, I would like to know more about it to see if it is fair. Questions I would ask:

1) What will be the ratio of interns to preceptor (or "staff advisor," whatever they might be called)?

2) How many hours each week are devoted to one-on-one time with the preceptor for evaluation and feedback?

3) Can you review a list skills will I be practicing throughout the internship?

4) What will be the internship-patient ratio?

5) May I talk with the preceptors (staff advisors) as part of the interview process?

joanna73, BSN, RN · Feb 16, 2011

That is my opinion, which I am entitled to express in an open forum. You do not have to agree. 11.44 is too low to pay for a nurse. Any level of nurse. If the economy was good, no one would dream of offering that wage. So its purely taking advantage. And I am working as an RN. I don't need to work at The Gap. I made the comparison for argument's sake.

coffeegirl7 · Feb 16, 2011

I get what you are saying--where your outrage at $11.44 an hour is coming from. BUT...you don't have a clue what you would be doing in an ICU critical care area, MGH no less. Do you have ANY IDEA the experience you are walking away with from that crummy paying INTERNSHIP?!? Alot. Amazing experience. And guess what...lots of new grads only get that opportunity through their capstone, which they pay for, they don't get paid to do. So...two words to point out to you are...NEW GRAD. That means you might be a nurse now, but you are not experienced. "Salary commensurate with experience" is just that. My first job as a nurse I was paid 11$ an hour. That was low for the time, but not crazy low like this is. But, I took the job. I am now in a management role making much more than that, but that job got me a foot into the world of nursing, at a time when there were no jobs. I would have been JUMPING at the chance to do an intership/residency at MGH. Having worked at BIDMC and B&W, you get the best experience you possibly can at a big city hospital. Take it for what it's worth...you are a nurse, but you have got an awful lot to learn about nursing. Good luck to you in your job search.

heron, ASN, RN · Feb 16, 2011

I've skimmed this thread and may have missed this, but I want to point something out:

Before I left MA in 2003, the MNA did a study on the costs of training new hires. Critical care training came in at around $65,000. Given the rapid turnover in cc nurses and the stated intent of many to put in their one year and move on to CRNA or other advanced practice area, I can definitely understand why a hospital would want to reduce those costs wherever possible.

I agree that the wage in this program is krep. On the other hand, as other posters have pointed out, cc credentials make a nurse highly marketable, especially if obtained at an institution with the reputation of MGH. Why nurses think they're somehow owed this training for free, plus a full salary for graciously allowing the hospital to subsidize their education, with no obligation on their part, boggles my mind, a bit.

shah · Feb 16, 2011

The bottom line is, you are being offered one of the best opportunities not in the US, but the whole darned world. There is more to value than money. Walk away from it and you would have lost the opporunity of a life time. You have a right to choose money over class.

livelaughlove09 · Feb 16, 2011

OK. I am in the minority here. $11.44 is a reasonable starting wage for a new grad! I haven't seen wages that low for an R.N. anywhere else in the country, and I have looked. Experienced nurses are fine with that, I get it. I wonder how many of you began at the wage? There is supposedly a "predicted" nursing shortage and if this wage becomes the norm for new grads, experienced nurses don't believe that affects recruitment? You want more men in nursing? You want the brightest people to consider nursing? Not gonna happen if this becomes the norm. If nursing does not remain a competitive field, there will definitely be a crisis, yet experienced nurses don't think so. I personally think that you are wrong, but that is why they make chocolate and vanilla. I do not have to work anywhere for that low a wage, so it really doesn't affect me personally. Good Luck.

I haven't finished reading all the posts yet. I saw this listing a while back while I was looking at new grad residency programs. Did I think the wage was ridiculous? Yes. Especially for an area like Boston. I also saw some programs that didn't pay. Yes, that's right, you work for free. No thanks. That's my personal feeling. Would I feel differently if I lived in the Boston area, with my parents, was 22 years old, and didn't have bills to pay. Sure! Well maybe not. I don't know, but I'm certainly in none of those positions, so I just kept moving on to the next ad. I don't believe this wage is going to become the norm for new grads. If it did, there'd be a nursing shortage like no one's ever predicted. With good reason. I'm going to catch a lot of flack for this comment but experienced nurses haven't seen a job market like we're seeing today. Most of them have opportunities, although they might not be exactly the opportunity they're looking for, they're out there to be had with a lot more flexibility than we're looking at. New grad nurses (I've yet to graduate but it's coming very shortly here and I'm already looking) are facing a tough situation (my area is very difficult to find a job in right now, if you're a new grad, but there's hundreds if not over a thousand jobs for experienced nurses). I've actually decided that I'll interview anywhere on the east coast, and am applying for jobs in multiple, and I mean a dozen multiple, not 2 or 3, states. Wherever I land I land, but I'm hoping to move back to the area I grew up in. I've heard the market is not as tight there as it is here. Now, if I weren't able to secure a job anywhere, would I consider working for 11 bucks an hour? Yeah I guess I'd have to. I'd be really disappointed if I spent all this time in school and worked my rump off to get an education that I'll never put to use because I'm out of school for 2 years with no job and no one will hire me because I've lost my skills that I never got the experience to refine. So do both sides have a point? Yeah they do to some degree.

Still I find the wage to be extremely low and I'm looking more at the area and the cost of living than anything else. I'd be embarassed to have to walk into the welfare office and apply for benefits and have to tell the person I was a nurse. We're on the low end of the pay scale from what I've seen everyone else say about their areas, but BSN, ADN, Diploma, whatever, everyone makes the same money here no matter their educational level, until you move into a different position. New grads in our area start out at just above $19.00 an hour.

45whenimdone · Feb 16, 2011

I know it sounds "insulting" but it's an INTERNSHIP. Some places don't even pay for interns. So you can either suck it up and gain the expierence and hope that they like you enough to pick you up and keep you; or you can ignore and go on and try to find something else. Though it is low pay; you are getting the expierence you will need to puruse other better career options.