MGH is offering new grad ICU internship for $11.44 an hour?

[DisneybearRN]

I was cruising the hospital websites as I do everyday as a new grad and came across this:

The Department of Nursing at Massachusetts General Hospital is running a New Graduate RN ICU Residency Program for six months from April 2011 to September 2011. RN residents will be hired and trained to work successfully in an intensive care setting.

Qualified applicants MUST have:

- a Baccalaureate of Science Degree in Nursing

- a current MA RN license

- less than 10 months of professional RN experience in a healthcare setting

- completed a clinical practicum in an ICU or experience in a patient assistive role in an ICU.

RN Residents will be eligible for benefits and paid a salary of $11.44 per hour. The schedule will be 40 hours per week with five 8-hour shifts. Day/Night rotation with weekends and holidays required.

11.44 an hour? They can't be serious...can they? They pay their CNAs more!

[April, RN, BSN, RN]

Actually, that was for training a new hire ... I'm not sure the study was controlled for years' experience. New grads would probably ring up at a tad more in light of the increased need for preceptors to spend time on the basics.

I know that MGH trains new hires in the ICU for 3 months and new grads are given 6 months. They are oriented for 6 months and attend weekly ICU classes. This would lead you to believe that the cost of training a new grad in an ICU would be at least double that of training an experienced nurse.

For those who think that the pay is insulting, the alternative is that they don't give new grads a chance at all. No new grad jobs, period. I know many new grads that are struggling to find jobs right now. If I were in their shoes, I would jump on this residency, just as they are. As others stated, the experience one gains from working in a high acuity ICU at prestigious hospital such as MGH would be make the low pay more than worth it. While there's no guarantee of a job at the end of the residency (though there's a high possibility of being offered one), no new grad is guaranteed to find a job in the next 6 months right now... just look at the posts on this forum.

[CranberryMuffin]

No ... it was 1972 and there was no training ... and the wage was still paltry: 11K per year for full-time work, including shift differential.

Besides, it's not a strict either it's as it should be/or it's outrageous. What we've been trying to point out is that specialty training is very, very expensive and that it's not so outrageous to expect trainees to carry some of that cost in some way. Free public education ends with high school. Past that, it is reasonable to look for the best deal you can get, but that no one owes you specialty training for free unless there's something in it for them.

FYI - 11K in 1972 translates to over 55K for 2011.

[pexx84]

The irony is if MGH was offering an unpaid internship in the ICU to new grads, it probably wouldn't raise an eyebrow. For those that are curious about the intensity of the program, here's on old Boston Globe article giving an account a previous version of the program.

[April, RN, BSN, RN]

The irony is if MGH was offering an unpaid internship in the ICU to new grads, it probably wouldn't raise an eyebrow.

Exactly! Low pay + benefits is better than nothing at all.

[heron, ASN, RN]

FYI - 11K in 1972 translates to over 55K for 2011.

But orientation was all of 3 weeks and then I hit the ground running. Minimal training and no new credential.

[holisticallyminded]

I'm sure I'm in the minority here but in my former profession, we had to pay to do an internship. There were always a few positions that paid you a stipend (very little, I might add) but most were considered paid education. We'd have to go to classes, etc, in addition to clinical time. And after all, nursing school clinicals are not exactly enough to get you ready to practice.......so maybe this opportunity isn't so terrible. After all, it isn't a long training time. Our internship was 9 months to a year. I say you take what you can get and impress the hell out of 'em!

[Music in My Heart]

No ... it was 1972 and there was no training ... and the wage was still paltry: 11K per year for full-time work, including shift differential.

Besides, it's not a strict either it's as it should be/or it's outrageous. What we've been trying to point out is that specialty training is very, very expensive and that it's not so outrageous to expect trainees to carry some of that cost in some way. Free public education ends with high school. Past that, it is reasonable to look for the best deal you can get, but that no one owes you specialty training for free unless there's something in it for them.

A comparison between now and 40 years ago is hardly an apt one, IMO. Still, how did that paltry wage compare to those who'd been hired 6 months prior or a year prior?

I simply find it notable to see people hired in the last 10 years - most (I presume) of whom were paid "typical" entry-level wages rather than poverty wages - advocating that there should now be a change and that new grads should be paying for their own OJT.

I'll point out that new nurses are no different than new engineers, new teachers, or new accountants (to pick three fields with which I'm very familiar) and that folks in those latter three categories are not commonly subject to training wage being advocated by so many nurses here.

As I said, what we're seeing are simple market forces but I do think it's a crying shame... and that it's going to effect everybody, neophyte and gray-hair alike.

[April, RN, BSN, RN]

I'll point out that new nurses are no different than new engineers new teachers, or new accountants (to pick three fields with which I'm very familiar) and that folks in those latter three categories are not commonly subject to training wage being advocated by so many nurses here..[/quote']

I'm not familiar with engineering, but new graduates in accounting and teaching are also having a very tough time finding jobs, just like new nurses are. Maybe they, too, would be grateful to be offered a lower-paying internship to keep from getting "stale" like MGH is offering to new nurses.

If hospitals can't afford to hire and train new grads, what should be done about the new grad glut? Offer nothing to the thousands of unemployed people with an RN license and continues to only hire those with experience? I agree that the pay stinks, but I stand by my opinion that some valuable experience with low pay is better than no shot at all, which has been the case around here for the last few years.

[CranberryMuffin]

But orientation was all of 3 weeks and then I hit the ground running. Minimal training and no new credential.

55K is nothing to sneeze at. I'd be happy with that pay.

And yes, I agree with you that you should have had more training, but the whole point of this dialogue isn't to assess who's had it harder - your generation, or this new one. The reality is that we are dealing with a whole new set of circumstances now than we've ever had in the past, and you really can't compare apples to oranges.

In the era of skyrocketing education costs, unprecedented amounts of student loan debt, and a struggling and stalled economy, I would think that perhaps one might see the differences in what we are dealing with here. There are a lot of people in my generation that will probably never make near the standard of living that you and people in your generation have obtained - because of all of these factors. Which is why I do find it insulting for people to be faced with either having to take unpaid internships or be paid a paltry $11.44/hour. It cheapens the profession.

At some point, one also has to ask (as was asked in an earlier post) - at what point does it really become too low? Personally, I couldn't afford to live on $11.44/hour nor do an unpaid internship. If you want to create longevity, instill employee loyalty, etc., pay new grads a fair wage, but have them sign a contract. That's only fair.

It was really only a few years ago that hospitals were paying off people's student loans, offering huge sign on bonuses and paying a good wage. And now new grads are being told, "just be glad you can make $11.44 an hour!"

[April, RN, BSN, RN]

At some point, one also has to ask (as was asked in an earlier post) - at what point does it really become too low? Personally, I couldn't afford to live on $11.44/hour nor do an unpaid internship.

Most jobless new grads can't survive very long without any paycheck, which is the alternative. If they were offered this residency and passed it up, there's a good chance that they wouldn't find a permanent new grad position within the next 6 months anyway... meaning no pay.

[CranberryMuffin]

Most jobless new grads can't survive very long with any paycheck, which is the alternative. If they were offered this residency and passed it up, there's a good chance that they wouldn't find a permanent new grad position within the next 6 months anyway... meaning no pay.

The alternative is actually to find a job doing something else for awhile...until they find a job in their field or relocate, which has been the case for many new grads.

[April, RN, BSN, RN]

The alternative is actually to find a job doing something else for awhile...until they find a job in their field or relocate, which has been the case for many new grads.

Doing what, though? Jobs that wouldn't pay much more than $11.44 and don't provide any relevant experience? Not everyone has another career to fall back on. You can't even work as a CNA if you have an RN license.