LPN-RN partnership in nursing-a gentle reminder

live4today, RN · Mar 9, 2002

Good post leesonlpn! As an RN who has worked numerous times with some of the finest LPNs, I salute you all! You are an equal part of the whole in the healthcare team, and you deserve to be respected as such. I acknowledge and validate your feelings, and all those that other LPNs may feel in regards to how other RNs may or may not treat them in the workplace. Teamwork is where it's at. We can't change the legal ramifications of why LPNs and RNs are designated certain tasks, but we can change our approach in how we manage working side by side with one another, helping one another as much as possible for the well-being of our patient population. That's what matters! Do what we can legally do, and what we can't legally do, we pull together and get done according to the laws as they are delegated for our particular nursing scope of practice. Fighting about it doesn't change what is, but we can send in letters to the "heads that be" in regards to all the "political jargon and red tape" that is such a legal hassle often creating havoc and chaos where peace and harmony need to reign foremost in our efforts to treat the sick.

Once we nurses show the public that we can stand together as nurses, and not just "various titles in nursing", then we will have made what I call "major progress" in getting the "heads that be" and the "public" to listen up to what we have to say that needs changing in our career field. After we accomplish our efforts to show a strong united front, then, and only then, can we begin to sit down and coexist as we begin the process of recognition between us, according to the various titles and certifications held. Just my humble little opinion!

leesonlpn · Mar 10, 2002

Thank you renee and others for your most encouraging comments. Now I have a bigger hurdle. I was asked to be a member of our hospital's new Nursing Practice Council. Guess what. 15 RN's, and Me, one LPN. A little unbalanced don't you think. I wrote a letter to our CNO stating she has a duty to be unbiased and give equal representation to LPN's. Her response was that as an RN her self, she must be reminded to think otherwise.etc. etc. In a skills mix group I was involved with, her thoughts were if it was up to her there would only be care aides in acute care, no LPN's. Coming from our CNO. Anyway I screamed and hollered and was able to get permission (ahem) to recruit two more LPN's ......and so it goes...................................

live4today, RN · Mar 10, 2002

Good for you, leesonlpn, for standing up to your CNO in that respect! There certainly should be more than one LPN on that council! How dare she think any differently! :rolleyes: I would have gone for a couple CNAs on that council as well. Why not round it out to include all three healthcare providers since all three have a lot of direct contact with the patients? That's just my own humble opinion, but if I ran that council, I would have at least two CNAs, three LPNs, and the rest RNs. RNs need to hear their staffs viewpoints concerning patient care to make the units run more smoothly, and to gain input from sources that may have different perspectives than they would on things concerning patient care. Afterall, isn't the object of forming a council like that to gain a broader perspective of things in order to make necessary changes where they are needed on the nursing units?

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"We can't change the past, but we can gather up its lessons and move on, stronger and wiser."--UNKNOWN

Janice8551 · Mar 10, 2002

Hi all:)

Leesonlpn: Unfortunately that is the typical response from alot of CNO's. With the changes in our hospital management structure, we lost a great Nursing Administrator. She was a real force behind encouraging LPN's in our hospital. I was asked to become the LPN Practice Leader about 2 years ago. Later on in August of that year I got a call from the Administrator's office asking that I come to a meeting with her. Needless to say I was a little curious and a lot :eek: ! I called the secretary back and asked what the meeting was to be about. I was told,"Oh, ------ just likes to meet with and get to know each of the practice leaders when she can." Here I was, not even in a formal role, and I was being summoned! How scary is that? However, the whole thing went wonderfully. I sit on many committees now as both the LPN and the CLPNBC representative. Especially important is the fact that we have a nursing professional practice network and all nurses, RN and LPN are encouraged to sit on it. We have a great group of people and it is on the floors that we get the support of our colleagues. I do the practice leader role on my own time. But I do get paid to come into meetings and my program manager has asked me to be formally included on the lists of members invited to meetings. Thing is, I have put my name out there. I keep on on when and where there are meetings. Look out for some of these things. Nursing Professional Practice Network, Acute Treatment Interprofessional Practice Network, Accreditation Committee, Recruitment and Retention Committee, Medical Program Breakthrough Group. These are all comittees that are inclusive of LPN's This is only because I've made it a point to get involved. The other thing is to see if HEU will help to get an Nursing Team committee going. (I know that in the present labour climate it may not be much of a priority to start one) But if you can even get a meeting room and schedule an LPN or LPN/ PCA meeting, you as a group could approach a manager or someone who you think might be supportive of you and take it from there. LPN's should be seen as a group unto themselves who work within the nursing team and are a professional entity! Just as valuable to our healthcare system as the rest of our colleagues! Go for it and if you'd like to e-mail me, please do so. GOOD LUCK!!! :D

Mito · Mar 12, 2002

After reading most of these posts I can clearly see the problem faced by LPN's.

As a CNA for fourteen years I have had plenty of RN's and LPN's treat me with a less than professional attitude. I decided to either live with this situation, try to change or find other employment. I decided to enter the RN program.

Part of the problem as I see it is in the education of future RN's . As a RN student we are not expected to get or give information from and LPN. We are expected to report off to the RN in charge of our zone. We spend a great deal of time talking about working as a team but don't really put it into practice. Alot of my fellow nursing students don't see LPN's as equals and I include myself in this group.

If were all nurses then why are the programs very different in content and rationale. In my opinion a nurse is not a nurse they are seperate and distinct levels of education for a reason. If you as a group (LPN's) feel that you should have the same respect as a RN then you should get in a RN program and get the qualifications to back it up.

Mito

nur20 · Mar 12, 2002

Hello mito, All due respect to your goals to become an RN and i wish you much success and happiness in your chosen area.You see, i respect all human beings.Be they a waiter, garbage collector or a nurse as all humans should be.Therefore, yes i give respect and demand respect.What i'm trying to get across to you is i demand respect in my area and my scope of practice. Do you know what equation really is? Everyone doing their best in the area they have chosen. We understand the difference in the education but that is not the point.The point is to be respected in what you do and be good at it.

micro, RN · Mar 12, 2002

I have learned the most by nurses on the floors where I have worked.......some have been RN's, some LPN's and yes, me and RN have learned so much from CNA's and UP's.................

different job duties, maybe

different practice acts.........similar

different legal responsibilities....maybe

we are all in this together.........

or I see taco bell hiring.........

ever heard the one about RN meaning retarded nurse.........

just micro,

an RN and a nurse

nobody is ever a just.........

live4today, RN · Mar 12, 2002

Right on Nur20! I agree with you. Everyone should be given respect regardless of what their chosen career might be. Looking down our noses at one another just because one may be a housekeeper, a teacher, a homemaker, a sanitation engineer, a CNA, LPN, or RN with one two or more certifications or degrees is TOTALLY UNCALLED FOR!

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"To be a great teacher, one must first master the art of being a great pupil."

Brownms46 · Mar 12, 2002

Originally posted by Mito
After reading most of these posts I can clearly see the problem faced by LPN's.

As a CNA for fourteen years I have had plenty of RN's and LPN's treat me with a less than professional attitude. I decided to either live with this situation, try to change or find other employment. I decided to enter the RN program.

Part of the problem as I see it is in the education of future RN's . As a RN student we are not expected to get or give information from and LPN. We are expected to report off to the RN in charge of our zone. We spend a great deal of time talking about working as a team but don't really put it into practice. Alot of my fellow nursing students don't see LPN's as equals and I include myself in this group.

If were all nurses then why are the programs very different in content and rationale. In my opinion a nurse is not a nurse they are seperate and distinct levels of education for a reason. If you as a group (LPN's) feel that you should have the same respect as a RN then you should get in a RN program and get the qualifications to back it up.

Mito

Dear Mito,

It really saddened me to see your post.. LPN are nurses...no matter whether you or your fellow student value or respect them!

And respect should be given to anyone...no matter what title they hold. You yourself said it bothered you to be treated with disrespect...so why would you now ...not see how wrong this is for you to continue in the same practice of giving disrespect to others. All persons should be respected for their knowledge, and experinece or...just because of their humanity. To have balant disregard for another based on their station in life....doesn't speak well for your ablity to hold compassion for the least of those assigned to your care.

I do not say you'e alone in your thinking...because as an LPN/VN ..I have met many with your same thinking. But that in no way makes it right. Should an MD reqard you with the same thinking? Should the nurse who has more education, and experience have the feel the same about you, as you do about LPN? If I were you...I would put away my elitism, until I have gained a little more experinece, and hope that some LPN who works with you, and sees you faltering...will be compassionate enough to save you from your inexperience.

There is much I could say here...but I feel you will soon find out that putting yourself above others, will come back to haunt you one day.

I have a wealth of experience...but I would NEVER say to anyone less experienced or less educationed than I....that they don't desire my respect unless they come up to my level!

IMHO...I don't even think you have a real clear understanding of just how telling this statement you have made is.

I wish you the best... :cool:

BigC · Mar 12, 2002

What an awsome post........my bedpans off to you.....wooooohoooooo.

Mito · Mar 12, 2002

I think it would be dishonest of me to say I regard LPN's as the same as RN's when it is quite clear that I don't. However, I am responding to this post as this is my point of view and yes I'm sure it is very different from yours.

I am not concerned with how an MD or a nurse with more education treats me. I will be doing my job regardless of their attitude because their assessment of abilities doesn't mean a thing to me. If, however, they have a legitimate concern over my nursing care then I will deal with that when it happens.

Let us hope that my job performance doesn't have to reley on one of these compassionate LPN's to save the day.

Mito

jaelle · Mar 12, 2002

Mito....guess what? A healthcare team may include RN, LPN, CMA, CNA, Orderly, Phlebotomist, Physical Therapist, Respiratory Therapist, Housekeeper, Janitor, Admissions staff, Unit Clerk Ward Clerk, Cental stores staff, Sterile supply staff, Cook, numerous delivery people, many others, and a patient. Out of all the members of that team....guess which one is the ONLY one that matters? It isn't you, OR the LPN unfortunate enough to work with you. It's the patient. Last I checked Nursing schools WERE still teaching patient care, arent they? If you are having an attitude about irrelevant crud, don't be dim enough to think your patient isn't affected. The LPN, and the CNA will spend much more time on the average with that patient than you...the RN will. So who's most important to that patient? The person writing in their chart? Or the person who is spending time with them? I think all new RN grads should have to work total patient care for at least 6 months after graduation. Then you will understand the value of LPN's and CNA's. Do the whole job yourself first. You're an RN after all. You shouldn't need any help with the average patient load. 5-15 patients total care for a 12 hour shift. Does that sound about right all you LPN's and CNA's?

Ann Barry RN