ANA discriminates against LPN/LVN

  1. The ANA is discriminating against LPNs and LVNs. American Nurses Association. No mention there abour REGISTERED? nope . To me that means ALL nurses. They should be forced to allow our membership or change their name to American REGISTERED Nurses Associaton.
    Any takers?
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  2. 48 Comments

  3. by   RNPD
    Kris-I agree with you. LPNs should be included. But believe me, the ANA isn't too happy about including me either, because although I am an RN, I am an ADN. The ANA is really an elite group and is much more interested in the nurse executive and in the elevation of the RN beyond the bedside. This is sad, but true, and probably why less than 10% of nurses in this country belong to the ANA. Those that do who aren't members by virtue of their SNA as their bargaining unit, are probably nurse executives. But I think the ANA is trying to become an organization for the bedside nurse, and for this reason I am willing to give them a chance, and would probably remain a member even if I was no longer represented by my SNA as my collective bargaining agent.
  4. by   rncountry
    The fact that the ANA does not include LPN/LVNs is one of the reasons that I do not belong to the ANA. In my state at least the majority that do belong to the ANA do so because they are part of the bargaining unit with the SNA. At one time I was a member of the Michigan Nurse Association through the bargaining unit that was in the hospital, however after I left that place of employment I did not keep my membership up. Major reason at that time was cost. Newly divorced with two small children I could ill afford any extra expense. At this time in my life finances are not a real problem, but I still do not choose to join the ANA. I have listened to the arguments made my both pro and con ANA people, but to me it comes down to a few very basic things.
    1. The ANA does not look at me as a professional because I do not hold a BSN. I am an ADN nurse. I have no desire to get a BSN. I do not see that it would enhance my bedside abilities, and choose to spend money on courses and such that will either enhance my bedside practice or my knowledge in things that interest me.
    2. The ANA has made it clear that diploma nurses are also not "professionals" yet often the older more experienced nurses that have much to teach younger nurses are diploma prepared. By more or less declaring diploma programs as inappropriate to me the ANA has successfully degraded older nurses that paved the way for all of us. While diploma programs used nurses that came out of them as unpaid labor, it should not tar the nurses that graduated from them as unprofessional. That was a system problem, not a nurse problem. Instead of celebrating all that the diploma nurses have to offer to the rest of us, the ANA succeeded in making those nurses feel defensive about their abilities, and have perpetuated the infighting that seems inherent in the career field.
    3. The unwillingness to welcome LPN/LVNs into the association effectively degrades the concept of all working as a team. Instead of being able to put together a model of what nursing should and could be in regards to team working, playing on the strengths of each team member, the model is a game of who is a better nurse based solely on the initials behind ones name. By declaring itself the American Nurse Association, but not including LPN/LVNs, they have effectively made that role invisible. Leaving the LPN/LVNs in a gray zone that gives no voice to them at all. In a time of bedside nursing shortage that promises to only get worse to me that is inane in the extreme. It makes much more sense to me to gather the "flock" and become a force we all know we could be.
    4. While it is easy to say the ANA would be that force if we joined it, I say that if the ANA promoted all nurses as worthy of their time and attention than they would have nurses joining. If they had not set themselves up to be a group that believes that only BSN prepared nurses are worthy to be "professional" nurses than it is plausible to think that they would have many members. I also believe that if through the years the ANA had focused its energy on the bedside nurse and the needs of the bedside nurse than they would have a membership that would be a force to be reckoned with. Instead they have focused on advance practice nurses, and been very willing to compromise with the AHA, while managed care has taken over the health care system. While the bean counters took health care into only a business leaving out human needs and basic care to those needs who was speaking out against it? While the typical bedside nurse could see the writing on the wall the ANA did not, and blithly continued on the path of dividing nurses against one another based on the educational level. Why should we expect employers to have any kind of regard for experience of nurses who work at the bedside when the association that states they speak for the American nurse does not?
    5. Nurses all over this country right now are starting out with wages that are the same starting pay I started out with 10 years ago. The starting pay that I had at a little bitty 60 bed hospital in rural northern Michigan. Their are large metro teaching hospitals that are starting nurses out at pay that is only a few cents different from mine all those years ago. Why is the ANA not addressing this. I have been to their website and do not see this addressed anywhere. Yes, wildtime, if you read this, pay is an issue. For any association to think it is right and proper for a nurse, particularly in southern states, to have to go thousands of dollars into debt to get a 4 year degree so they are a "professional" nurse, to come out and make $13 to $14 an hour to start is absolutely ridiculous. I know the argument. If we were all BSN nurses than we could command the wages. I say horse pockey to that. Because what the nurse does at the bedside is the same regardless of the degree and pay should be based on what the job responsiblities are regardless of the degree that got you there. It is a well established fact that there are many other professions out there that make much better money. Professions such as electicians come to mind. And they are labeled a profession despite not having to go to college for 4 years to be considered a profession. If anyone looks up profession in Websters dictionary you will note that nursing certainly falls under that defination. It is only those that feel a need to redefine what a profession is for their own advantage that will not see nursing for what it is.
    When and if the ANA decides that they truly want to be the voice for ALL nurses, and will tackle the issues of the bedside nurse with action, not words, than I will happily join with them. I see some movement in that area, but much has to be done for me to want to be a part of it at this time. And while I say this, I will also note that while there is much to admire in the California Nurse Association, they also do not and will not represent LPN/LVNs. Maybe someday either the ANA or the CNA will wake up and realize there are a whole group of NURSES that deserve and need to be represented as well.
  5. by   HotSpam
    Devils advocate...

    While it is true that the ANA does not represent LPNs and holds BSNs in higher regard than ADNs I do not think that is a bad thing.

    One of the biggest underlying efforts of the ANA is to represent the BSN as a professional nurse.

    Even though the core of thier efforts does not concern the ADN or LPN a lot of their efforts trickle down to help the LPN and ADN. This includes the efforts regarding staffing.

    My opinion is if you are a LPN or ADN you need to realize the ANA isn't really your most compatible advocate. That doesn't make them bad though. The ambiguity of their name shouldn't really be in question - that is like suggesting Playboy should be name Playman, or whatever.

    Just let the ANA do it's job and if it doesn't fit your agenda then join another org that you feel represents you better. I mean I am a white man but I do not choose to join the KKK, ya know?

    Besides, if you want to get picky... The bachelors degree has long been considered the lowest common denominator of the white collar worker. Many companies only hire individuals with a four year college education. In nursing we have a nice advantage that we can get a 2 year degree at a community college and still earn a decent living. I think we should count our blessings. If you want to feel more like a professional it might be worthwhile to attempt to get a BSN.

    By the way, before I am called an elitist. I am an ADN. I realise if I desire to continue growing my resume and have security in my field I should get more credentialing and a BSN. If, when, I do, I would hope that sacrifice and dedication is rewarded.

    I think it is pathetic to hear LPNs saying they should get the same recognition as RNs and ADNs should get the same recognition as BSNs. It may be difficult to go back to school for more education, but that is a different story and not the fault of the industry or those who have done it, even if it was easy for them.

    Perhaps I am an elitist though. I do enjoy golf.

    HotSpam
  6. by   AnneD
    RN country, you have summed up my thought very eloquently. I looked at the ANA after I graduated with my ADN and did not like the elitist attitude. As with many in upper management, they have underestimated the will of the nurses in the field and are johnny come lately's to stating our needs. Frankly I am tired of being trickled down on Those that will lead nurses will listen carefully and take bold action and so far that has been unions with a strong nurse input. Unless the ANA starts getting vocal and radical about the current crisis and it's causes they will be nothing more than a paper general leading 7% of the available troops into battle (I'm envisions a scene from Braveheart here ). I will be happy to go back and review their stances but until I see action....it's just lipservice to keep the troops in line
  7. by   -jt
    I gather from the posts that most of you who are saying the ANA doesnt consider ADNs to be professionals & the ANA is "an elitist group", etc, etc, are not ANA members. So what is it that you are basing these assumptions on? It isnt first hand experience or knowledge because you are not in there to know, so is it from actions others involved in the organization had taken years ago or what they may have said years ago that is causing you to come to these "conclusions"? This is a very different ANA than there was years ago. With a very different leadership & focus than was there years ago. So what exactly is it that makes people think ADNs/diplomas are looked down on?

    The majority of nurse members in the ANA ARE bedside nurses and The majority of bedside nurses ARE ADNs. They can run for & be elected to leadership positions in the organziation just the same as any BSN, MSN or PHd. They are not discriminated against in any way. They are not looked down on at all. They receive the same services as every other nurse member & have the same opportunities. When fighting for nurses issues, the ANA does not make a distinction between BSN nurses or ADN nurses - its for ALL nurses. In local contracts, we do obtain additional compensation for nurses with BSN, MSN, & specialty certifications because the effort an RN puts in to work for those should be valued & compensated for. But that does mean the ADN/diploma nurse is looked down on.

    So I think these assumptions are baseless - and may be just old perceptions that some hold onto like a bad habit.

    As an ADN, bedside RN, and ANA member who does hold leadership roles, I disagree with you - based on fact, first hand knowledge, & personal experience.
  8. by   -jt
    "I will be happy to go back and review their stances but until I see action....it's just lipservice to keep the troops in line"
    "Unless the ANA starts getting vocal and radical about the current crisis and it's causes they will be nothing more than a paper general"
    "When and if the ANA decides that they truly want to be the voice for ALL nurses, and will tackle the issues of the bedside nurse with action, not words, than I will happily join with them."


    well ... realizing that non-members may not always be aware of whats happening in our organziation, much info has been posted on this BB showing you all that action, yet non-members continue to say they havent seen any action or changes or any work for direct-care nurses. So obviously they havent bothered to read any of that info or update themselves at all. If they had, they wouldnt be able to say they dont see any action. The info is all right there for you to update yourself on whats been going on & how the ANA is out there, IS vocal & IS tackling the issues with the bedside nurse. If people choose to keep their eyes closed & not see it, nobody can do much about that.

    ps
    anybody joining us for the big events in several states around the country this week & in Washington DC next month to publicize the staffing crisis & to lobby at the Capitols for our workplace issues, or are we ANA members the ONLY ones who will be out there, vocal, and taking any action to solve the problem?
  9. by   realnursealso/LPN
    NO JT WE ARE NOT JOINING YOU! START AN ORGANIZATION THAT INCLUDES ALL NURSES AND SOMEONE MIGHT! IF THE ana CAN'T EVEN GET ALL THE RN'S TO GO ALONG WITH YOU HOW CAN YOU EXPECT ANY RESPECT FROM OTHER PROFESSIONALS. AND DON'T BOTHER EMAILING ME WITH A BUNCH OF ANA PROPAGANDA LIKE YOU DID WHEN I EXPRESSED AN INTEREST IN THE MMM. IF AN ORGANIZATION WANTS SUPPORT IT'S A TWO WAY STREET.
  10. by   fiestynurse
    I can only look at the facts before me at this point. Working conditions were getting so bad out here in California and it seemed impossible to mobilize for any kind of change. We were getting no help! It wasn't until we broke from the ANA, that the CNA was able to move into high gear. I have been amazed at how quickly and powerfully they have responded to nurse's needs. We now have the first nurse/patient ratio bill in the nation and a whistle-blower law to protect nurses from being fired for speaking up about healthcare conditions. And the movement continues to gain momentum!!!
  11. by   stiritup
    Hey, realnursealso, Want to be treated as a PROFESSIONAL, get a PROFESSIONAL DEGREE. However, this will take 4 years of college; not ONE year!!!
  12. by   ucavalpn
    Originally posted by stiritup:
    <STRONG>Hey, realnursealso, Want to be treated as a PROFESSIONAL, get a PROFESSIONAL DEGREE. However, this will take 4 years of college; not ONE year!!! </STRONG>

    - i guess you just did . - why ?
  13. by   Chellyse66
    Now this is interesting, I am the fence post rider on this ANA issue, waiting and watching, but came across this piece of reading...Essentially we have created this heirachy ourselves, but technically the ANA was extremely instrumental in creating the divisions we now suffer from in this profession. Same arguments for 50 years does lend credence to the ANA being responsible.So let us see if they are able to also make the changes to right some of the wrongs so to speak. It is possible, time will tell...

    Quote from the ANA website:
    "The Flexner report prompted much introspection about nursing's ability to meet the new standards (Wuest, 1994) and stimulated a long and arduous process of redefining the profession of nursing and working to change external perceptions in order that nursing could attain a professional status equal to that ascribed to medicine and the other professions. To that end, over the past 80 plus years, we have seen an expansion and standardization of nursing curricula; attempts to raise academic requirements for entry-level practitioners; the establishment of nursing's own research agenda and an expansion of its scientific knowledge base; the development of nursing theories; and the establishment of increasingly autonomous practice that includes prescriptive authority, admission privileges, and direct reimbursement from federal insurance. During the process of working to advance nursing as a profession, some distinct divisions began to emerge among RNs that are being played out, even today, especially regarding attempts to organize for collective bargaining.

    As nursing bought into the popular definition of professionalism and began to lay out the process by which it would attain that identity, it simultaneously began to eschew some of the attributes long associated with nursing. When baccalaureate programs appeared as a means to professionalize nursing (the major focus of these programs was on nursing education and administration), distinctions between academically prepared nurses and those coming from traditional hospital "apprenticeship" programs began to surface and prompted debate about "whose work was the most meaningful" (Wuest, 1994). Over time, increasingly higher status was given to those in nursing positions remote from the bedside and direct care. In attempting to professionalize nursing by distancing itself from those traditional roles and activities that have negative, historically feminine overtones, but that many RNs embrace as a satisfying and necessary part of patient care, nursing has ultimately created divisions within its own ranks and validated external speculations about a house in disorder."

    I also agree that there should be equal representation if called the "American Nursing Association" and I also believe it is and was intended at the time to be established in an elitist view, what are they willing to do now is the question?
  14. by   -jt
    NO JT WE ARE NOT JOINING YOU!

    I didnt mean join the organziation. I meant join in the activity. Lots of people keep complaining that "no one" is DOING anything. Theres at least one thing already set up......all you have to do is show up & tell your stories to the media & your own states legislators to help get some solutions put into gear. But if you dont want to do that because WE will be there too, thats your choice. While youre cutting your nose to spite your face, dont sit back & say "No one" is taking any action to solve the problems.
    have a nice day.

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ANA discriminates against LPN/LVN