Any LPN/LVN DON's or ADON's or in Management Somehow???

FocusRN · Jan 25, 2005

Okay I now that it is possible because at the last facility that I was at, the ADON, was an LPN. I don't know how long she's been a nurse but she's been their ADON for 9 years, and she's pretty young. But anyway, how would a person go about doing this. I plan on working in LTC straight out of school, and I want some type of management position after my first year (I may be an RN by then), but just in case I am looking into an online Health Care Management Degree program, or something. Do ya'll think that will provide me with what I need to have one of these positions, or some other king of management position. I don't believe that just because a person is an LPN, and not an RN, that they can't have he same management responsibilities as RN's simply because management is just that management. True true nursing skills are an essential qualification for the job, but from what I have been hearning from a lot of ADON's is that their jobs don't really have much to do with nursing unless, you are talking about hiring and firing the nursing staff, or scheduling them. So what do ya'll think? If I go for this degree it will be online while I am, in school to become an LPN, so I'll have some under my belt by the time I start nursing. And just in case no one knows my current plan here it is:

While in LPN school, do all of the pre-req's for EC's LPN to ADN program

Be done with LPN school by Jan. 2007

Start working as an LPN

Finish EC's LPN to ADN program 6 to 12 months after, I become an LPN

Start working as an RN

Start on EC's ADN to BSN program and take my time with it

And now somewhere in that mix, get into nursing management, preferably while I am still an LPN. I know I have goals that seem far to some, but I won't limit myself, because I think when people do that they are just giving into that old stereotypish phrase "Just an LPN", and I refuse!

DeniseLPN · Jan 25, 2005

Hi New Mommy!!! Congrats on being a new mommy!!! I admire your goals! This is my own personal take on it:

I really do not think a new grad is the best for a management position. You need to take the time to develop skills and attain comfort in your job. I know that it takes awhile to become familiar to a new role--there is much you will not be exposed to in nursing school. The role of a DON/ADON covers much more than "just managing." It carries with it really heavy responsibilities--especially in this day and age. I recall a nursing home that I worked at once that the DON had her license revoked for some kind of medicare/caid fraud. Nursing homes if not run well can be a liability. I do not think a management position is realistic without experience--especially as an LPN. I know in LPN school we did not focus much on management skills besides supervising CNA's. I also strongly believe DON's should hold the minimum of an associates degree with lots of experience or a BSN degree. My advice, get through school and get some good experience--then you will be ready to advance.

Denise

DeniseLPN · Jan 25, 2005

Hi New Mommy!!! Congrats on being a new mommy!!! I admire your goals! This is my own personal take on it:

I really do not think a new grad is the best for a management position. You need to take the time to develop skills and attain comfort in your job. I know that it takes awhile to become familiar to a new role--there is much you will not be exposed to in nursing school. The role of a DON/ADON covers much more than "just managing." It carries with it really heavy responsibilities--especially in this day and age. I recall a nursing home that I worked at once that the DON had her license revoked for some kind of medicare/caid fraud. Nursing homes if not run well can be a liability. I do not think a management position is realistic without experience--especially as an LPN. I know in LPN school we did not focus much on management skills besides supervising CNA's. I also strongly believe DON's should hold the minimum of an associates degree with lots of experience or a BSN degree. My advice, get through school and get some good experience--then you will be ready to advance.

Denise

donmomofnine · Jan 26, 2005

I agree. A DON must be familiar with so many things in long term care and all of those things will be new to you! You need to know basics of long term care and then many other "management" type things such as payment systems. MDS, state and federal regs....the list is endless. The only way I learned all these things was by starting as a charge nurse, moving to supervisor and then DON. That took ten years for me and I was not a slacker! Experience is crucial to management in long term care! As far as LPN/RN issues, I certainly don't have a problem with an LPN as DON in theory, but the state does and it is required that the DON be an RN. I admire your spunk and determination to reach your goals, but I don't think you have a realistic picture of long term care. Take your time, enjoy your baby:) , your job and school! I know it can be done, because I did it too!

donmomofnine · Jan 26, 2005

I agree. A DON must be familiar with so many things in long term care and all of those things will be new to you! You need to know basics of long term care and then many other "management" type things such as payment systems. MDS, state and federal regs....the list is endless. The only way I learned all these things was by starting as a charge nurse, moving to supervisor and then DON. That took ten years for me and I was not a slacker! Experience is crucial to management in long term care! As far as LPN/RN issues, I certainly don't have a problem with an LPN as DON in theory, but the state does and it is required that the DON be an RN. I admire your spunk and determination to reach your goals, but I don't think you have a realistic picture of long term care. Take your time, enjoy your baby:) , your job and school! I know it can be done, because I did it too!

ibmissy · Jan 26, 2005

As a new graduate of an LPN program, I also agree the DON and ADON should have years of experience. As a new nurse it takes at least 6 months to even have a total clue of what one is doing.

There is no need to rush your dreams. Would you rather someday get a management position after having years of experience under your belt and doing a great job, or right out of school, doing an okay job, and chancing losing your license.

BTW Ever DON and ADON I have ever run into were RNs who had about 20 yrs experience.

CoffeeRTC, BSN, RN · Jan 26, 2005

Haven't seen LPNs as a DON in skilled care facilities, but in assisted living yes

CapeCodMermaid, RN · Jan 27, 2005

I'm pretty sure that in Massachusetts, the DON HAS to be an RN...at least at the SNF level. Look at your state's nurse practice act.

cilky · Jan 28, 2005

I'm pretty sure that in Massachusetts, the DON HAS to be an RN...at least at the SNF level. Look at your state's nurse practice act.

HI capecod mermaid,

Mass RN here, yes i agree, most don positions they have to be an RN

but i have to tell ya, 15 years ltc, i havent met a management team i want to work in in the last five years, Most now seem likethey either dont care

or they havent got a clue what the hellthey are doing and forget about weekend, they do better disappearing act than Houdini

Lauri

BeenThereDoneThat74, MSN, RN · Jan 28, 2005

you're rather ambitious, and that's great. you also have your entire career (and life) ahead of you. you should probably focus on becoming a nurse first. i've been an rn for 10 yrs, with a bsn for 2 yrs, and will have my msn in 1 yr. i'm per diem supervising, and there is still plenty i do know. i was on duty for this weekend's snow storm, and was thinking (before i got there) of all of the things i need to be prepared for. the don came in (it was the weekend and she is usually not there), and i was kind of glad. nothing major happened (thankfully), but there were a few little things i needed to 'run by' her.

one thing i learned as a sup, is you need a lot of people skills, and that comes with age and experience. and dealing with nurses, aides, patients, and families are a whole different ball of wax. it's much different dealing with them when they are your coworkers than when you are higher up.

do you already work in ltc? the place i sup at is 'quasi-ltc', and no one without a bsn is in management (msn preferred, of course). we have staff lpn's, but none beyond that. i can't see how an lpn can be 'in charge' of an rn. when i am at work, i am the highest authority there. sure i don't have an ms, (some staff may actually, and some nurses are more experienced than i), but if there is a code (and no doctor is there, which is the case during off-hours), guess who's running it??? :uhoh21: certainly in a few years, you could be as equally competent to handle that situation, but within a year? i don't know... (but then again, anything is possible i suppose).

FocusRN · Jan 28, 2005

you're rather ambitious, and that's great. you also have your entire career (and life) ahead of you. you should probably focus on becoming a nurse first. i've been an rn for 10 yrs, with a bsn for 2 yrs, and will have my msn in 1 yr. i'm per diem supervising, and there is still plenty i do know. i was on duty for this weekend's snow storm, and was thinking (before i got there) of all of the things i need to be prepared for. the don came in (it was the weekend and she is usually not there), and i was kind of glad. nothing major happened (thankfully), but there were a few little things i needed to 'run by' her.
one thing i learned as a sup, is you need a lot of people skills, and that comes with age and experience. and dealing with nurses, aides, patients, and families are a whole different ball of wax. it's much different dealing with them when they are your coworkers than when you are higher up.
do you already work in ltc? the place i sup at is 'quasi-ltc', and no one without a bsn is in management (msn preferred, of course). we have staff lpn's, but none beyond that. i can't see how an lpn can be 'in charge' of an rn. when i am at work, i am the highest authority there. sure i don't have an ms, (some staff may actually, and some nurses are more experienced than i), but if there is a code (and no doctor is there, which is the case during off-hours), guess who's running it??? :uhoh21: certainly in a few years, you could be as equally competent to handle that situation, but within a year? i don't know... (but then again, anything is possible i suppose).

hi, thanks for the advice. but aout lpn's not being in charge of rns, i know it can and does happen. as a matter of fact at the last ltc that i was at, the adon was and lpn, and she had the sole responsibility of hiring anf firing the nursing staff including rn's. as a matter of fact she also had a hand in hiring their new don. but my question is why wouldn't it be possible, or not normal for some?