Students who don't belong, being pulled through LPN program (long rant) - page 2

Just thought I'd vent a little about this. I always thought that nursing school was going to be a real "trial by fire". It was such a hassle to get in, between all the paperwork and testing, and the... Read More

  1. by   Murse901
    Sorry I haven't kept up with my own thread. I thought I'd subscribed to it, and didn't get any emails, so I assumed there were no more replies.

    Well, I've had a couple of days to cool off, and I've decided I don't really care. I'll just do my own thing during these 3-days-of-review-that-should-take-3-hours-of-class periods. Screw it. You're right, and it's not for me to necessarily decide that other people don't belong, despite their shortcomings.

    But, just to clarify something, I'm not just a callous complainer. I actually have tutored a few of my classmates and they finally "got it", so maybe it's just a matter of the AOM instructor's ability.

    Anyway, I'll just ride it out. There's not really a point in stirring anything up. As long as I get my license once it's all said and done, I'm okay. I'll just be sure to avoid those students if I ever end up in the hospital and they're working on the unit I'm in.
    Last edit by Murse901 on Nov 1, '05
  2. by   Tweety
    Good attitude DonaldJ. Good luck!
  3. by   nurse4theplanet
    Quote from DonaldJ
    Sorry I haven't kept up with my own thread. I thought I'd subscribed to it, and didn't get any emails, so I assumed there were no more replies.

    Well, I've had a couple of days to cool off, and I've decided I don't really care. I'll just do my own thing during these 3-days-of-review-that-should-take-3-hours-of-class periods. Screw it. You're right, and it's not for me to necessarily decide that other people don't belong, despite their shortcomings.

    But, just to clarify something, I'm not just a callous complainer. I actually have tutored a few of my classmates and they finally "got it", so maybe it's just a matter of the AOM instructor's ability.

    Anyway, I'll just ride it out. There's not really a point in stirring anything up. As long as I get my license once it's all said and done, I'm okay. I'll just be sure to avoid those students if I ever end up in the hospital and they're working on the unit I'm in.
    Good attitude. But I still understand your frustration.

    Our school did not start doing a NET test until the semester after I was accepted from a two year waiting list. If they had, it would have reduced MY waiting time drastically!

    I wonder what your programs NCLEX pass rate is? If they are carrying their students, I am guessing it won't be as high as most other programs. Our school will not even give you a tenth of a point. If you have a 77.4 avg (78 is lowest passing score) then they fail you. And theory grades must be passing before they avg in care plan grades. They are super strict about testing...they provide the scantrons and calculators and maintain diligent supervision. All our bags/books/purses/hats must be left at the front of the room and no pencils allowed during test review. They certainly play no games. Our NCLEX pass rate is 99%!
  4. by   mariedoreen
    You know what really frustrates me? Students who think they're in any position to make judgments about which of their peers should or should not become a licensed nurse. Let your instructors judge who's coming along adequately and who's not. They are far more qualified to make this kind of decision than you are, and believe me, you have far more important things to worry about during this time my friend.
  5. by   CrabbyPatty
    I have to say, I understand some of what Don's frustrations are. Our school was on probation because of their lousy NCLEX pass rate. So, this semester they've "revamped" our RN program to make it easier for everyone. However, I feel like they're making it too easy for some people who shouldn't be there in the first place.

    We were all supposed to have met certain requirements before we would be allowed to enter Nursing 1 this past fall. We ALL met and signed a contract that we would have our physicals completed, immunizations done, CPR certificatons, all our science pre-req's. etc. I busted my butt to make sure those things were done on time. For the next 5 or 6 class meetings, our instructor kept announcing "if you haven't turned in your physicals, CPR certifications, etc., you need to get that done". Then, we had registrations for our Nursing 2 classes and they announce, "if you haven't met all your science pre-reqs, we need to meet with you to make sure you get those in next semester"!!!

    We had to take an "entrance exam" of sorts online through ATI. We HAD to get a 75% to pass. Well, there was an announcement during lecture that those who didn't pass it would get one-on-one guidance by the instructor for the rest of the semester.

    We were intially told we'd have an interview with the director of nursing...that never happened. The first day of class, we went around the room to state why we wanted to be nurses and I was shocked at the number of people who said things like, "I want to make lots of money" or "I got laid off from my last job, so here I am". I read posts from people in other areas of the country who are on wait lists and we've got people in class with us who had nothing better to do with their time....and they're some of the one's being given one-on-one help!!

    Then, we've got other issues. Our lecture instructor showed up the first lecture and didn't know how to get her powerpoint presentation to work, so she cancelled lecture! No backup slides, nothing! She told us we'd have to stay late the next lecture. She's always disorganized. Last week, her cell phone rang during lecture. She said "Oh, I forgot to turn that off" then she ANSWERED IT!!!! It happened again during the same lecture and because she was running late she asked us if it would be ok for us to stay late. She's also our clinical instructor and she shows up late for clinicals!!! This of course cuts into the time we spend with our patients. We usually meet after clinical for a debriefing. Last week she didn't have a conference room booked, so we missed out entirely.

    Is this just normal stuff that I need to get used to? It seems that most other schools have strict entrance requirements, as I think they should.

    I also understand what some of the others have said about letting the instructors deal with those people who shouldn't be there, but it really has a negative impact on the rest of us when it's announced to the entire class that those people who fall behind will get special treatment. I've got a family and it's very trying on them with all the time I have to spend studying.

    Ok, I'm finished with my rant....off to take a test now. Thanks for listening (reading).
  6. by   Lisa CCU RN
    Quote from mariedoreen
    You know what really frustrates me? Students who think they're in any position to make judgments about which of their peers should or should not become a licensed nurse. Let your instructors judge who's coming along adequately and who's not. They are far more qualified to make this kind of decision than you are, and believe me, you have far more important things to worry about during this time my friend.
    :yeahthat: :yeahthat:
  7. by   IMustBeCrazy
    It's not a judgement at all.

    It's a reasonable expectation of competence.

    ~IMBC
  8. by   LexieLPN
    Quote from IMustBeCrazy
    It's not a judgement at all.

    It's a reasonable expectation of competence.

    ~IMBC
    Students are LEARNING and they all have areas of struggle. Some struggles are just more visible and open to judgment than others. Let's all remember too that these struggles CAN be overcome. That's what this period of time in nursing school is about, the lightbulb coming on in a lot of different areas and the growth of competence over time. Why some students feels they are able to judge when this should occur for every student on every challenge is beyond me. If it makes you feel better you can call it an "expectation of competence," but make no mistake about it: it is a judgment. And such judgments belong to the instructors, not the students who think they're all that. I mean really, what arrogance.
  9. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    There's a difference between an expectation of competence (instructors should be the ones expecting that) and drawing a blanket conclusion from one area of struggle.
  10. by   nurse4theplanet
    Quote from DonaldJ
    ...
    And that's not the worst of it. Open book and open discussion exams have become commonplace. And by "open discussion", I mean the instructor literally giving us the answers to about 25% of the exam.

    ...
    Now, here's where it gets interesting. I'm pretty sure I know why people are being pulled through this time. We have a new Nursing Dept Coordinator. She was brought in because the last 2 coordinators were only achieving about a 15-20% course pass rate (of course, NCLEX pass rates for those classes were 100%). This reason was told to our class by the coordinator herself. So, her goal is to get over 75% pass rate.

    But now, I see exactly how she's going to get her 75% pass rate. By holding everyone's hand all the way through the program. I can only HOPE that the NCLEX will weed these people out. And then, when the NCLEX pass rate for the program drops to 20%, I wonder what the Board is going to think....
    some of Don's comments were a tad harsh, but the quotes listed above were VERY valid concerns, IMO. The school's reputation is at stake, and as Don is attending that school, I am sure he wants the community hospitals to be supportive and trusting of the nurses that come from his program.

    He also may feel like he is not receiving a quality education that will prepare him for the NCLEX...which is the light or the stop sign at the end of the tunnel.

    yes, people do struggle and there should be accomodations made for students with special needs or who made need some extra attention. But the fact that they are actually giving test answers out during an exam....my instructors would have a cow if they were reading this.

    As a nursing student, we do come in with an expectation of competence and professionalism from our program. I feel like what Don's instructors are doing is a HUGE disservice to these students...much more so than any ill judgement he may have posted. It is possible that many of these students will complete the program, and fail the NCLEX...and their time and money will have been for naught.
  11. by   IMustBeCrazy
    We're not talking about a student learning how to place an IV here.
    We're talking about people that need 18 hours of classtime to figure out how move decimal places in the metric system.

    This is not arrogance. It's a sad commentary of US education now days and students expecting to be spoonfed information they should already have command of (competence) in secondary institutions.

    I'm not stating that these people may not be good nurses someday. I am saying that this type of indepth instruction on basic learning concepts needs to be handled by a tutor or a remedial program, not holding back the other 95% of the class that is sitting there for 18 hours.

    One could say that those demanding this extended instruction during classtime are equally 'arrogant'.

    ~IMBC
    Last edit by IMustBeCrazy on Nov 2, '05
  12. by   GrnHonu99
    Quote from IMustBeCrazy
    We're not talking about a student learning how to place an IV here.
    We're talking about people that need 18 hours of classtime to figure out how move decimal places in the metric system.

    This is not arrogance. It's a sad commentary of US education now days and students expecting to be spoonfed information they should already have command of (competence) in secondary institutions.

    I'm not stating that these people may not be good nurses someday. I am saying that this type of indepth instruction on basic learning concepts needs to be handled by a tutor or a remedial program, not holding back the other 95% of the class that is sitting there for 18 hours.

    One could say that those demanding this extended instruction during classtime are equally 'arrogant'.

    ~IMBC
    I totally agree. I know what it feels like to work really hard and feel like I could have done nothing and got the same grade. NOT ALL, but some students may feel bc there are lower standards they can slack off...not a good thing in nursing school. There should be high standards in every nursing program and students who are having trouble should be helped not kicked out, but maybe on their own time, after class?
  13. by   following_faith
    I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!

    My program was exactly the same! It was so tough to get in and they grilled us at orientation about dress, attendance, grades...all of it!

    Well I am in my first half and I know what you mean! We have one teacher who constantly has open book/take home tests...and even our final is open book! My other teacher makes everyone retake a test if the class does poorly for the most part-but we have to keep the second grade!

    I am watching people lie on our sign in sheet (which is suppose to be considered a legal document and lying is grounds to be kicked out) yet even after getting caught, they are still there and still doing it!

    Many people in my class do other things than study (i.e. go out at night) or just miss class when they feel like it, leave early, come late...then when they whine about how hard everything is or how much work it all is...the teacher reschedules the test, or makes it open book.

    It INFURIATES me because I work my tail off for my grades. I stay up at night, miss time with my kids to make sure I KNOW the stuff and then the next day the test is rescheduled or it is open book-giving the people who chose not to study the same advantage as those of us that did. And why do I have to retake a test that I got a 98 on just because 3/4 failed? As for rescheduling, if I knew it was coming and was able to study for it, why couldn't they?

    The one teacher is going to also be our drug admin teacher and she said that in the real world, there is always a cheat sheet for meds. so most of that will be open book. You have got to be kidding me!

    You know what my teacher said about it? "I am not going to lose my job because 10 people all fail during the first half." AAARRRGGGHHHH!

    THIS IS NURSING SCHOOL!!!!!!

    I am more than willing to help those that are trying and struggling...the key word is "trying". They are putting an effort and I hope they are standing there with me at graduation. But there are MORE THAN NOT who just say-"no need to study..it'll probably be open book."

    So yeah, I know how you feel.
    Last edit by following_faith on Nov 2, '05

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