Students who don't belong, being pulled through LPN program (long rant)

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Tweety, BSN, RN

34,248 Posts

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

It seems like they could do a little better at screening the people they admit to this program. Having such a dismal failure rate and trying to raise it to 75% is a good goal, but to let people slide through is not the way to do it.

Since this is so irritating to you, I advise you to just drop it. Let it go. Let the instructors worry about who does what. No need for you to write anymore stories in your head about how incompetent some people in your class are (they are stories because you're writing them, and do you really know what's going on in their heads, their lives and their interactions with the insturctors?).

Anyway, let it go, be the very best that you can be.

Specializes in Emergency, Case Management, Informatics.

Sorry I haven't kept up with my own thread. I thought I'd subscribed to it, and didn't get any emails, so I assumed there were no more replies.

Well, I've had a couple of days to cool off, and I've decided I don't really care. I'll just do my own thing during these 3-days-of-review-that-should-take-3-hours-of-class periods. Screw it. You're right, and it's not for me to necessarily decide that other people don't belong, despite their shortcomings.

But, just to clarify something, I'm not just a callous complainer. I actually have tutored a few of my classmates and they finally "got it", so maybe it's just a matter of the AOM instructor's ability.

Anyway, I'll just ride it out. There's not really a point in stirring anything up. As long as I get my license once it's all said and done, I'm okay. I'll just be sure to avoid those students if I ever end up in the hospital and they're working on the unit I'm in. :clown:

Tweety, BSN, RN

34,248 Posts

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

Good attitude DonaldJ. Good luck!

Specializes in Critical Care, Pediatrics, Geriatrics.
Sorry I haven't kept up with my own thread. I thought I'd subscribed to it, and didn't get any emails, so I assumed there were no more replies.

Well, I've had a couple of days to cool off, and I've decided I don't really care. I'll just do my own thing during these 3-days-of-review-that-should-take-3-hours-of-class periods. Screw it. You're right, and it's not for me to necessarily decide that other people don't belong, despite their shortcomings.

But, just to clarify something, I'm not just a callous complainer. I actually have tutored a few of my classmates and they finally "got it", so maybe it's just a matter of the AOM instructor's ability.

Anyway, I'll just ride it out. There's not really a point in stirring anything up. As long as I get my license once it's all said and done, I'm okay. I'll just be sure to avoid those students if I ever end up in the hospital and they're working on the unit I'm in. :clown:

Good attitude. But I still understand your frustration.

Our school did not start doing a NET test until the semester after I was accepted from a two year waiting list. If they had, it would have reduced MY waiting time drastically!

I wonder what your programs NCLEX pass rate is? If they are carrying their students, I am guessing it won't be as high as most other programs. Our school will not even give you a tenth of a point. If you have a 77.4 avg (78 is lowest passing score) then they fail you. And theory grades must be passing before they avg in care plan grades. They are super strict about testing...they provide the scantrons and calculators and maintain diligent supervision. All our bags/books/purses/hats must be left at the front of the room and no pencils allowed during test review. They certainly play no games. Our NCLEX pass rate is 99%!

:smokin:

mariedoreen

819 Posts

Specializes in Med-Surg.

You know what really frustrates me? Students who think they're in any position to make judgments about which of their peers should or should not become a licensed nurse. Let your instructors judge who's coming along adequately and who's not. They are far more qualified to make this kind of decision than you are, and believe me, you have far more important things to worry about during this time my friend.

CrabbyPatty

113 Posts

Specializes in ICU.

I have to say, I understand some of what Don's frustrations are. Our school was on probation because of their lousy NCLEX pass rate. So, this semester they've "revamped" our RN program to make it easier for everyone. However, I feel like they're making it too easy for some people who shouldn't be there in the first place.

We were all supposed to have met certain requirements before we would be allowed to enter Nursing 1 this past fall. We ALL met and signed a contract that we would have our physicals completed, immunizations done, CPR certificatons, all our science pre-req's. etc. I busted my butt to make sure those things were done on time. For the next 5 or 6 class meetings, our instructor kept announcing "if you haven't turned in your physicals, CPR certifications, etc., you need to get that done". Then, we had registrations for our Nursing 2 classes and they announce, "if you haven't met all your science pre-reqs, we need to meet with you to make sure you get those in next semester"!!!

We had to take an "entrance exam" of sorts online through ATI. We HAD to get a 75% to pass. Well, there was an announcement during lecture that those who didn't pass it would get one-on-one guidance by the instructor for the rest of the semester.

We were intially told we'd have an interview with the director of nursing...that never happened. The first day of class, we went around the room to state why we wanted to be nurses and I was shocked at the number of people who said things like, "I want to make lots of money" or "I got laid off from my last job, so here I am". I read posts from people in other areas of the country who are on wait lists and we've got people in class with us who had nothing better to do with their time....and they're some of the one's being given one-on-one help!!

Then, we've got other issues. Our lecture instructor showed up the first lecture and didn't know how to get her powerpoint presentation to work, so she cancelled lecture! No backup slides, nothing! She told us we'd have to stay late the next lecture. She's always disorganized. Last week, her cell phone rang during lecture. She said "Oh, I forgot to turn that off" then she ANSWERED IT!!!! It happened again during the same lecture and because she was running late she asked us if it would be ok for us to stay late. She's also our clinical instructor and she shows up late for clinicals!!! This of course cuts into the time we spend with our patients. We usually meet after clinical for a debriefing. Last week she didn't have a conference room booked, so we missed out entirely.

Is this just normal stuff that I need to get used to? It seems that most other schools have strict entrance requirements, as I think they should.

I also understand what some of the others have said about letting the instructors deal with those people who shouldn't be there, but it really has a negative impact on the rest of us when it's announced to the entire class that those people who fall behind will get special treatment. I've got a family and it's very trying on them with all the time I have to spend studying.

Ok, I'm finished with my rant....off to take a test now. Thanks for listening (reading). :)

Lisa CCU RN, RN

1,531 Posts

Specializes in Geriatrics, Cardiac, ICU.
You know what really frustrates me? Students who think they're in any position to make judgments about which of their peers should or should not become a licensed nurse. Let your instructors judge who's coming along adequately and who's not. They are far more qualified to make this kind of decision than you are, and believe me, you have far more important things to worry about during this time my friend.

:yeahthat: :yeahthat:

IMustBeCrazy

439 Posts

It's not a judgement at all.

It's a reasonable expectation of competence.

~IMBC

LexieLPN

4 Posts

It's not a judgement at all.

It's a reasonable expectation of competence.

~IMBC

Students are LEARNING and they all have areas of struggle. Some struggles are just more visible and open to judgment than others. Let's all remember too that these struggles CAN be overcome. That's what this period of time in nursing school is about, the lightbulb coming on in a lot of different areas and the growth of competence over time. Why some students feels they are able to judge when this should occur for every student on every challenge is beyond me. If it makes you feel better you can call it an "expectation of competence," but make no mistake about it: it is a judgment. And such judgments belong to the instructors, not the students who think they're all that. I mean really, what arrogance.

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.

There's a difference between an expectation of competence (instructors should be the ones expecting that) and drawing a blanket conclusion from one area of struggle.

Specializes in Critical Care, Pediatrics, Geriatrics.

...

And that's not the worst of it. Open book and open discussion exams have become commonplace. And by "open discussion", I mean the instructor literally giving us the answers to about 25% of the exam.

...

Now, here's where it gets interesting. I'm pretty sure I know why people are being pulled through this time. We have a new Nursing Dept Coordinator. She was brought in because the last 2 coordinators were only achieving about a 15-20% course pass rate (of course, NCLEX pass rates for those classes were 100%). This reason was told to our class by the coordinator herself. So, her goal is to get over 75% pass rate.

But now, I see exactly how she's going to get her 75% pass rate. By holding everyone's hand all the way through the program. I can only HOPE that the NCLEX will weed these people out. And then, when the NCLEX pass rate for the program drops to 20%, I wonder what the Board is going to think....

some of Don's comments were a tad harsh, but the quotes listed above were VERY valid concerns, IMO. The school's reputation is at stake, and as Don is attending that school, I am sure he wants the community hospitals to be supportive and trusting of the nurses that come from his program.

He also may feel like he is not receiving a quality education that will prepare him for the NCLEX...which is the light or the stop sign at the end of the tunnel.

yes, people do struggle and there should be accomodations made for students with special needs or who made need some extra attention. But the fact that they are actually giving test answers out during an exam....my instructors would have a cow if they were reading this.

As a nursing student, we do come in with an expectation of competence and professionalism from our program. I feel like what Don's instructors are doing is a HUGE disservice to these students...much more so than any ill judgement he may have posted. It is possible that many of these students will complete the program, and fail the NCLEX...and their time and money will have been for naught.

IMustBeCrazy

439 Posts

We're not talking about a student learning how to place an IV here.

We're talking about people that need 18 hours of classtime to figure out how move decimal places in the metric system.

This is not arrogance. It's a sad commentary of US education now days and students expecting to be spoonfed information they should already have command of (competence) in secondary institutions.

I'm not stating that these people may not be good nurses someday. I am saying that this type of indepth instruction on basic learning concepts needs to be handled by a tutor or a remedial program, not holding back the other 95% of the class that is sitting there for 18 hours.

One could say that those demanding this extended instruction during classtime are equally 'arrogant'.

~IMBC

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