No! It is NOT OK.

As a student you learn that the nurse-patient relationship is critical for effective, humane, holistic patient care. You also learn that the communication necessary for a nurse-patient relationship is a two-way street. There is what we say... and there is what the patient hears. Both of these must be precise for optimal nurse-patient interactions to occur. Unfortunately, we all have deeply ingrained linguistic habits that too often garble our communication efforts... and we should NOT be OK with that! Nurses Announcements Archive Article

I have noticed over the years that student-patient interactions are loaded with relationship killing words and phrases. The students are not being unkind. Rather they are speaking without thought or purpose.

Though I don't want students to feel stilted and confined and "fake" when they converse with patients I do want them leave linguistic tics and mannerisms at home. These are fine in "everyday life" but they impede the development of a therapeutic nurse-patient relationship in professional interactions.

The most common example of conversational "tics" is the way we (Americans, at least) punctuate much of what we say with "OK". "OK" is a multi-use tool in common speech. For example:

* We use it to end a conversation. ("OK, OK. I get it. OK?")

* Sometimes we use it to take the sting out of what we've just said. ("Honey, slacks with horizontal stripes are not a good look for you... OK?")

* We use it to determine if our listener is still with us. (Remember teaching lowest-common-denominator to your 5th grader? Having pointed out that 4 goes into 12 as does 3 you look at your child and say "OK?" And of course, their eyes are glazed over!)

But this tic is hugely counter-productive at the bedside. The most common way students use "OK?" seems to reflect some distorted sense of courtesy. For example I often hear students say something like:

"No, Mr. Andrews, those chips your visitor brought you don't go with your cardiac diet. OK?"

Think about what the student did in that interaction. Initially he/she was speaking as a nurse, conveying important information. Then instantly became a petitioner asking the patient if he would be "OK" with refraining from potato chips. The student turned a therapeutic relationship into one that was ambiguous. The patient, hearing this "OK?", is entitled to imagine the student is making a suggestion instead of giving him important information about living with congestive heart failure. This was a "teachable moment" and it was wasted. How much better if the student had said...

"Mr. Andrews... those chips have a lot of salt in them. You'll have to avoid salty foods at home and let me explain why... etc."

The habit of saying "OK?" is also insincere. Students commonly say things like

"Mr. Watson, we have to turn you to your other side now... OK?"

Well, no. In Mr. Watson's mind it is not "OK" because turning hurts. He knows it. The student knows it. And Mr. Watson also knows it's futile to tell the student "no". In this interaction, the student was not honestly asking Mr. Watson's opinion about turning. But... the student could have used this simple nursing task to give the patient some much needed autonomy. The student could have said

"Mr. Watson. It's time to turn. Would you rather face the door or the window?"

Note two things. First, this is a sincere question. As a result, the nurse-patient relationship is strengthened. And second, a previously helpless patient is invited to participate in his care. He is being treated like an adult.

There are times a patient may be going on at some length about a concern (Not uncommonly, this is a "problem patient". Often one the nurses prefer to avoid) For most students the impulse to nod and say... "OK." "Uh huh." "OK" is irresistible . Unfortunately, doing so adds nothing to the conversation and the patient eventually realizes the student nurse is trying to hurry her to the end of her soliloquy.

A much more therapeutic approach is to make eye contact with this patient and listen for recurring themes. (Things that she is telling you multiple times in different words.) These can then be reflected back at appropriate times. In this manner, the student is engaged and the patient knows it. This patient who was previously acting out (because no one would pay attention to her if she didn't)... now feels she has an advocate she can talk to, someone who understands. The nurse-patient relationship is strengthened.

In real life, all of these nursing measures don't work all of the time. But sometimes they actually do. On the other hand... without hesitation or equivocation... I can tell you that just reflexively saying "OK" when speaking to patients adds nothing to your plan of care and may actually impede it.

Specializes in Psych.

Last night I caught myself saying Okay so many times I was annoying myself! Today I open up AN and this is what I find lol yup it's time to rephrase things.

Specializes in SICU.
Specializes in SCRN.

Lucky "OK' is not a habit of mine, maybe because I'm not an American. I'll just use "dobre" instead, and nobody will understand me anyway. :cautious: I can see the point of OP; darn OK is used by nurses all the time...

And Mr. Watson... he doesn't get a choice about turning, he gets choices about HOW we turn, and whether we do it now or 20 minutes after I give him 3 mg. Morphine.

Color me confused.....

In several responses you state that you respect patient autonomy, but in the reply above you clearly deny that right.

The patient always has both a choice and the final say in what will be done, including refusing to be turned. If they refuse, certainly you must educate them of the inherent risks, but you can't force, intimidate or coerce them.

As far as CMS, you might want to review 42CFR-482.13, which specifically outlines patient's rights under the CMS regulations and guidelines, including their specific right to refuse.

Specializes in Education, research, neuro.
Color me confused.....

In several responses you state that you respect patient autonomy, but in the reply above you clearly deny that right.

The patient always has both a choice and the final say in what will be done, including refusing to be turned. If they refuse, certainly you must educate them of the inherent risks, but you can't force, intimidate or coerce them.

As far as CMS, you might want to review 42CFR-482.13, which specifically outlines patient's rights under the CMS regulations and guidelines, including their specific right to refuse.

You have raised an interesting issue that I have seriously had... in 43 years of nursing... happen to me exactly once. I absolutely could NOT get a person to ambulate after a fairly big back surgery. I don't think she even used the BR, but asked for a bed pan. I did EVERYthing I could think of but nothing worked. She got a DVT as I'd predicted to her, and after that the daughter was all over her and the lady walked out of there once we had her bridged to coumadin.

OK. Mr. Watson: How long does it take on average to get a stage 1 decubitus. 2, 3, 4 hours perhaps depending upon his oxygenation, and nutritional status and the surface he's on.

God bless you for knowing about CMS's Patient's Bill of Rights. But here is the deal. CMS does not recognize any relationship between their Bill of Rights, and a decubitus. That's how it works. If you honor one part of their regulations and thereby violate another part... the feds will hold you and your hospital responsible for your failure. You don't get points for guarding the patient's civil rights. You failed. The stats pn bed sores is out of allowable range and they stop "rewarding" (i.e., paying) your hospital since it is no longer classifiable as "excellent".

Here it is demonstrated even more dramatically.

This Mr. Watson has had a big right sided stroke and shows absolute neglect of his completely flaccid left side, and he says to you

"I'm going to the bathroom now." At which point you've just grabbed him as he exited the bed.

"NO! Get your hands off me!" (He's a big guy, so now it's you and two CNA's)

"I just want to go to the damned bathroom! If I want to get up and walk to the farking bathroom I will"

(Now he's taken a swing at you.)

"I don't want a bunch of women in there with me. No leave me alone!!!"

OK nurse. Are you going to stand back and let Mr. Watson crash to the floor? You've already told me you're willing to let him develop a stage 1 or 2 decubitus on your shift.

You see... it is your job to see to it that Mr. Watson does NOT fall, nor does he have skin breakdown. If he is refusing to stay in bed, or turn, it is your job to find a way to get him to do it. You pull out all the stops and do whatever it takes.

At the end of the day I guess we can say this:

Yes. Mr. Watson does get the right to refuse to turn. He does not have the right to get a big decubitus over his right trocanter.

Yes, Mr. Watson has a right to walk to the bathroom alone. But he does not have a right to fall.

You are right to be confused. You have to irreconcilable demands placed upon you. I am not sure how you will solve your dilemma. But here is one thing I absolutely know to be true.

You won't solve anything by saying... "Now stay in bed, Mr. Watson. OK?"

Specializes in LTC, Memory loss, PDN.

just like some of the recent POS systems at the store

will say "is $ 25.36 ok" instead of just giving the price

no it's not ok (in my mind), i'd like to pay $ 20.00

but there really isn't a choice so it's just a worthless add on

I am happy you posted this. I sometimes come off as an uncertain person and am always looking for ways to improve that before I get into nursing school or become a nurse. I always hated when my mom was treated like a child in the hospital after her stroke and I could see the shame in her face when they did so.

Specializes in Cath/EP lab, CCU, Cardiac stepdown.
just like some of the recent POS systems at the store

will say "is $ 25.36 ok" instead of just giving the price

no it's not ok (in my mind), i'd like to pay $ 20.00

but there really isn't a choice so it's just a worthless add on

Apples and oranges. In the store you might not have the choice in pricing but in the health care system, patients do indeed have a choice of whether they want whatever service we are providing.

Specializes in Transitional Nursing.

I don't know. I had a patient who was flacid on his right side from a CVA 16 years prior. He had developed a decub on his sacrum, but flat out refused to lay on his side. Ever.

He was A&O x3, an ex-marine, and the sweetest man I have ever had the pleasure of caring for. He was about 6'3 and 220lbs, with the bluest eyes that would light up when his wife walked in the room. She had become unable to care for him anymore a few years prior. Although his mind was there, his body had failed him. I can only imagine what that must have been like for him, once upon a time fighting in the second world war, and here he was unable to get out of bed or use the bathroom.

I remember wincing for him every time I changed his sheets or gave him a bath, because his bottom was just so, so sore. I would beg him to just lay on his side for a few hours, to give it a rest. He would refuse every time. He didn't want to, he wanted to watch his movies and munch on his snacks.

His ONLY quality of life was to lay in bed with his chips and his coke, and watch old movies. He couldn't do that on his side. He adamantly refused to let us position him, the most we could ever do was prop him just a bit with a pillow, and he would be ringing for us to take it out after a couple minutes.

In his case, it truly was his right to refuse to be turned, and I don't see what the point would have been if we had forced him to lay on his side and stare at the wall. His bottom may have gotten better, but he would have been miserable, and I don't blame him one bit for his choice.

I just wanted to share.

Specializes in Med nurse in med-surg., float, HH, and PDN.

Wow! I would like to print this post and paste it all over the places I have worked during the past 40 years.

"OKAY?"..... Hate it!

One other thing that also gets on my last nerve is when someone talking to an obviously very HOH person speaks in that little-girl, soft, high-pitched 'sweet' tone of voice that is from the back of the throat. Folks, you have to lower your tone and project from your diaphragm and gut, not just repeat yourself 5-6 times without success. Look them in the face and treat them like the adult they are, not like they are a 5 year old. Please!

Thanks, I'll have to keep an eye out for this (and in all areas of life!). This is one of those things that is so pervasive that unless it is specifically brought up, it'd never be given a second thought, so much appreciation for mentioning it! The power of our words is rather strong and yet we don't often give them a second thought.