Difference bet 2 yr and 4yr school - page 4

Beside time and money, what is the difference or benefits of a 4 year college for nursing or is there no difference. why... :clown:... Read More

  1. by   gwt
    Can you please post a source for this "information"?

    I did a research paper on this subject last year. Just search around on the CINAHL style databases out there.
    g
  2. by   West_Coast_Ken
    Quote from gwt
    i did a research paper on this subject last year. just search around on the cinahl style databases out there.
    since you "did a research paper" just last year and you made a rather direct claim "hospitals that hire primarily bsn's over adn's have a significantly lower rate of patient mortality..." then you have the responsibility to site your supposed sources.

    i am not going to dig around in cinahl ([font='times new roman']cumulative index to nursing & allied health literature) to verify your claim. that is your responsibility since you made the statement.
    [font='times new roman']
    [font='times new roman']regards,
    [font='times new roman']
    [font='times new roman']ken
  3. by   gwt
    As often as these threads come up, nobody seems to get it. The primary difference between the ADN and BSN programs is that the BSN stresses leadership. Leadership in this context has little to do with higher management positions or whatever people are thinking. Those positions are going to go to the MSN shortly.

    It has to do with LEADERSHIP AT THE BEDSIDE
  4. by   Gompers
    Quote from gwt
    As often as these threads come up, nobody seems to get it. The primary difference between the ADN and BSN programs is that the BSN stresses leadership.
    Actually, if we're going to get technical, the PRIMARY difference between ADN and BSN programs is that the BSN has a liberal arts eduction in addition to nursing. Every BSN and ADN program is going to be a little bit different, so we really can't generalize what each program stresses. Many times the coursework in the nursing and science classes is very similar, as is the clinical experience. It's not fair to judge the entire ADN and BSN debate just by looking at a couple of schools in your area and the graduates from those programs.

    But if you compare just about ANY major in a Bachelor and Associate's program, you'll see that it's those liberal arts classes that sets the two apart. A Bachelor's degree is a very well-rounded one. An Associate's focuses more on the actual major, which is why there are fewer credits needed towards graduation. Like I said, this is true of ANY major, not just nursing.

    Take my husband and my cousin. Both are graduating from the same college this year. My husband works full-time and is almost done with his Bachelor's in telecommunications. My cousin goes to school full-time and will be getting his Associate's in telecommunications. The MAJOR classes are virtually the same, really no difference noted at all in the course guide. BUT my husband has taken lots of other classes not directly related to his major, and as a result he will have a much more rounded education. He's taken history, sociology, psychology, economics, business, speech, etc. All of those classes will help him in his career - but as far as TECHNICAL knowledge of telecommunications, he and my cousin have the exact same skills and education.

    It's the same with nursing. The thing that bugs me about this whole thread is that people keep bringing up critical thinking, and saying that only BSNs learn that. NOT TRUE. If it was, there is no way a nurse with her Associate's would ever pass the boards! Critical thinking is what nursing school teaches from day one, whether you're in a BSN or ADN program.

    Okay, fine, some BSN programs have more focus on leadership and research as compared to some ADN programs. SO WHAT? The actual bedside nursing education is virtually the same. I work with 120+ nurses. I couldn't tell you who has a BSN and who has an ADN, and I've worked there for seven years.

    I wonder how many people who debate ADN vs. BSN so passionately are actually working nurses?
  5. by   pvjerrys
    Quote from wannaBEanRN
    Some question why I'd want a BSN at my age, plus I have the first of 4 kids going to college in 3 years. I will plug away at it slowly, hopefully online as much as possible.
    Don't know your age but a person is never too old to get more education. I worked on my MSN along with my 2 college-aged kids. We all had great time being in school together.

    My philosophy is never stop learning, whether it's formal or informal education (i.e. continuing education). What makes me sad are those RNs who are stuck in a time warp from their graduation days and are afraid of changes because "we have always done it this way."

    What ever your education level is, keep your mind open to research and the rationale behind it. Don't be afraid of change. The only constant is change.
  6. by   West_Coast_Ken
    Quote from Gompers
    The thing that bugs me about this whole thread is that people keep bringing up critical thinking, and saying that only BSNs learn that. NOT TRUE. If it was, there is no way a nurse with her Associate's would ever pass the boards!
    Very well said, Gompers. And just what is "critical thinking" anyway? [rhetorical question, folks...no answer needed] What BSN class teaches this that we ADN folks aren't taking? (answer: nothing).

    I am working on my ADN. I already have a BA in Business Finance and 15 years working in the IT field. Bet when I finish my ADN I will have miles more formal education in nursing, liberal arts and technical training than any 20 somtehing BSN grad.

    One thing I have learned over the years, especially when I earned my BA, is that many who have "higher" education think they are automatically smarter/better than those with a "lower" education. Same thing goes for just about any aspect of human nature. Taller = better, good looking = better, more money = better and on and on and on it goes... So this debate is just more of the "I'm better than you becasue..." mentality of human nature.

    What makes a better RN isn't the training that got them the RN title, it's the person that makes a good (or not so good) RN--period.

    Regards,

    Ken
  7. by   Jessy_RN
    Quote from Tanzanite
    I think another difference is that 2 yr programs usually attend through the summer, and traditional 4 yr institutions do not.
    agreed
  8. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    As often as these threads come up, nobody seems to get it.
    Oh i COMPLETELY agree with this line. People turn the thread into a ADN vs. BSN degree debate on which is better, smarter, etc., and the DON'T GET that the OP was just asking what the difference or benefit was between a 2 and 4 year degree.

    :stone
  9. by   ProfRN4
    Quote from west_coast_ken

    can you please post a source for this "information"?
    [font="comic sans ms"]aiken, l. et al. (2003). educational levels of hospital nurses and surgical patient mortality.
    journal of the american medical association, 290 (12), 1617-23.

    i was unable to access it online for free, even through my colleges virtual libray. i copied it out of the library directly from jama

    i'm still on the fence about the findings myself. many variables were not addressed.
  10. by   suzy253
    Quote from gwt
    Can you please post a source for this "information"?

    I did a research paper on this subject last year. Just search around on the CINAHL style databases out there.
    g

    I thought BSN's were into researching. Well, this lowly 3-year diploma student knows that it was originally printed in JAMA (2003) and follow up reports state that this study is fatally flawed. JAMA = Journal of the American Medical Association.
  11. by   suzy253
    Quote from gwt
    I was in clinical this week with an ADN I highly respect, but a patient asked for some grahm crackers and she gave them to him despite the glucose stick he just had an hour earlier that gave a reading of over 350. I know, 'cause I charted it. Well...?
    g
    Well? Well, I was in clinical my freshman year with students from a BSN program sharing the clinical site--fairly early on in their clinical rotation after having been in the program for 2 years already---
    anyway, i was preparing to insert a foley catheter in a female patient with the BSN student observing with the staff RN as well. After asking several questions about the technique, the BSN student stated she wasn't aware of sterile technique, etc. etc. but that she was aware of the theory behind it."
    Well indeed (?)
  12. by   lilmama007
    Why are you all bashing each other? Who cares whether or not you or whoever goes to the two year or four year. None of you pay each others bills and none of you are certified guidance counselor to whomever posted this thread. Why such bigoted opinions? I've applied to a four year program and that's because I don't want to waist much time with going to school. I got side tracked in the Marine Corps for eight years. But I also decided that hey, the Community College is 30 minutes away (as opposed to 1 hr) and becuase I have the prerequisites for both programs, why not do the 2 year? I'll need those 117 credit hours when applying to the online BSN at ECU. So am I wrong for this decision? acccording to a couple of you, I am wrong for this decision just because it's an ADN program. I've taken all of the statistics, psychology, research and reporting, sociology, chemistry, micro, ethics, and everything else required for a BSN program so in all actuality according to you BSN guys, I can sit at a desk all day and research better than the ADN student. I believe I could have researched better than any student without those classes. I had experience with that sort of thing before applying to any program. I was a Marine, and that required much research especially when you have to research local customs of Iraqi and Afghani citizens so that you can fit in without being caught. Especially when you have to learn to apply all sorts of first aid to the man who has just been shot dead lying next to you with his intestines falling out onto the ground. My job was called INTELLIEGENCE. But I'm a bigot you say. Am I a bigot for wanting to spend less time driving to school? Am I a bigot for wanting to save money rather than shelling it out on $2.56/gallon gas every 2 days?
    Last edit by lilmama007 on Jan 8, '06
  13. by   Butterflybee
    I am the original poster. What I was wondering and have since been answered was jobwise what the difference was and how much of a difference it made. Also, I was wondering as far as classes, what the difference was. Obviously, the 4 yr would take more classes but I was wondering in what. I think this was a very informative thread that could help someone decide which path they would like to choose or if in the long run they would go back for the BSN. Thank all of you for sharing your thoughts. You guys are really great.

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