Bringing your *new* baby to school....

[luvmy2angels]

Problem here all....recent member of class had a baby. Now, so far our school has been VERY strict about pretty much everything. Now, I understand that this student is a single mother, on assistance and struggling (well, who isn't nowadays). But anyways she was recently told by our instructor that she can bring her baby to class with her so she doesn't have to miss time. We have class one night a week and we ALWAYS have a test that night because the rest of the week we are in clinical. A lot of the students are complaining that it is distracting, granted she is pretty quiet for the most part but she gets passed around from person to person to be held for the 5 hours we are there and it IS distracting! Plus there are people in class that have had to miss class time because of "children" problems, babysitter couldn't come or whatever....these students feel it is unfair that she was given the choice to BRING her baby to class but others missed time! Something just isn't right about this situation. I don't want to sound like a mean person because I DO want to see her succeed and finish school but at the same time COME ON!!!!!! :angryfire Am I wrong for feeling this way????

[fergus51]

I just want to give this woman the benefit of the doubt, if she is in nursing school, as hard as it is to get in and stay in, I think she does have good sense and probably the case with her baby is that the parents will not watch a newborn. Probably when the child is older( the OP did not say how old) she will put the child in daycare or have someone watch it. I think this is temporary and she has permission from her instructor so she is using it.

Perhaps.... I guess since I've known a lot of smart parents who are oblivious to the way that they can impose on others with their children issues, I would see no problem in the OP simply asking if this was a temporary thing or not and suggesting alternatives. Some parents would never even think that a child in a class could bother other students, so I could see how this woman could think this arrangement is just peachy for the long haul. It's like they just love their children so much they can't even grasp the notion that sometimes the children's presence is not welcome. I have worked with a lot of mothers over the years, some just don't understand why others would have a problem with them expecting special treatment because they are parents especially when that special treatment steps on other peoples' toes.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

It is truely dissapointing to see how many women in nursing lack real empathy, isn't it? This has really turned me off to nursing in many ways.

I have been restraining myself but here it goes.

If one honestly feels that most of the posters here like empathy, then one will probably be very disappointed in Nursing. But nurses are human beings with reasonable expectations of responsible behavior of others. It does not mean that they should be expected to deal with highly unreasonable behavior from an individual that has behaved irresponsibly. The is not "lacking in empathy" , this expecting people to step up to their responsibilities, without imposing on others.

I have had coworkers that : wear perfume, play the radio too loud, whistle, call in every weekend, leave work at the drop of a hat for trivial reasons, bring their kids to work, have their kids call every 30 minutes of a 12 hour nightshift (yet not give them the direct line to their section, insuring that their coworkers have to drop whatever they are doing to answer the phone and search for the said coworker), come in late everyday and then gripe about the assignment, or come in on time yet kvetch/gossip for 30 minutes, delaying report, take personal cell phone calls on the floor, etc.

All of these are annoying, disruptive to the unit and patient care, and interfere with their work (whether they will admit it or not) and their coworkers. And they are robbing the rest of us of time and being very disrespectful of the rest of us.

Barring rape, this woman made a choice. She had sex, or got married and had sex, with or without precautions and had a baby. She now needs to take care of the baby. It would be nice to have a better job to do so but not essential. If she wants to have the nicer job, well it includes a responsibility of finding childcare for her classroom time. If she did not want to deal with that responsibility, she shouldn't have been having sex or could have put the child up for adoption. No one required her to have sex. And no one mandates that she is entitled to a "good" job either. Healthy happy children have been raised with less.

Now she expects the rest of us that behaved morally/responsibly and who made sacrifices to just pick up her slack, without complaint.

We are rewarding bad behavior by punishing those that practiced "good" behavior....and we wonder why no one wants to practice responsible behavior anymore.

Those "adorable" babies...many of the classmates frequently think that they are less than adorable...but are too nice to say so. I can say that, because I have been there...the classmates that leave the class ticked and venting (away from the "adoring mother"), because they are working 40 hrs a week, taking 14 semester hours, and finding childcare for their own kids. Just to get their classes disrupted by a squalling child.

The ones that would love to be a mother, but are not for whatever reason get babies put in their arms to hold and say, "Isn't she cute" when it just makes you want to cry and YOU DO NOT WANT TO HOLD THEM!!!!!! But the mother just thinks that her baby is adorable and wanted by everyone, and has absolutely no concept that her child might not be welcome.

And you get treated as a heartless evil witch, when you hand the baby back, or say that babies do not belong in class, or don't just go want along with the crowd.

There are some heartless and non empathetic people posting on this thread. But many of them are on the "pro baby in class" team as well.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

A while back, a poster asked why hospitals did not provide a daycare for patient's children so that the patient could go to appointments, unencumbered by her "active children.

It was carefully and repeatedly explained to her that liability issues would impede this. It was also explained to her that it was her duty to take care of her kids.

I suggested that she go to her local hospital and start this service and that she volunteer her services to provide some of that childcare and that she make sure that she sign a permit that the hospital would not be responsible for any problems with the care that her children would receive.

Said poster accused me of being mean, rude, and sarcastic. She explained that she did not trade off childcare duties with neighbors or acquaintances because SHE DIDN'T LIKE CARING FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN, and that it was inconvenient to her.

The irony was that the poster expected the hospital to pick up the slack and provide a service (or find volunteers for) that she herself was not willing to do/provide.

Those "compassionate" people in class should offer their childcare services to the mother, in question, so that the "heartless" and "nonempathatic" need not be inconvenieced.

[bluesky, BSN, RN]

I also think it's being pretty overdramatic to call even the worst case scenario- her leaving school- as complete destruction of her well being or career. Other people have had to do it for a variety of reasons and it doesn't mean they will never be succesful.

I would have felt as you do prior to getting involved in assisting a number of women whose life stories parallel this woman's. I have known a number of them and none have managed to return to school because after getting a full-time job to support their children, they never recuperate the level of support to take the time off to go back to school. I know this to be true, not hypothetically, but real world, hard core.

While I do regret and appoligize for making the blanket statement about nurses not being empathetic, I stand by my "overdramatic" perspective.

[bluesky, BSN, RN]

The flip side is that this single mom won't last as a nurse if she thinks her employer is going to accomodate her this way. Can you imagine saying "I couldn't find a sitter, so Jr is going to come with me to work on the medical floor"?.

Um, the flip side is that as a nurse she will be fiscally empowered to find help with childcare. This is a class issue.

[bluesky, BSN, RN]

In my part time nursing class we have had 5 girls with newborns at various times and they were allowed to bring them to class until they were about 5-6 months old. With the exception of one person these babies have been welcomed by us, the teachers and administration. We are a close knit class and support our nursing classmates.

Good for you Lori... you and your classmates are angels!

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[bluesky, BSN, RN]

Those "compassionate" people in class should offer their childcare services to the mother, in question, so that the "heartless" and "nonemphatic" need not be inconvenieced

Too bad they all have to be in class at the same time. :)

As for childcare in hospitals, some magnet hospitals in my area do have childcare for the nurses... of course it's only open til 4 PM (you know the time at which the administrative people go home.. )

[bluesky, BSN, RN]

I have been restraining myself but here it goes.

If one honestly feels that most of the posters here like empathy, then one will probably be very disappointed in Nursing. But nurses are human beings with reasonable expectations of responsible behavior of others. It does not mean that they should be expected to deal with highly unreasonable behavior from an individual that has behaved irresponsibly. The is not "lacking in empathy" , this expecting people to step up to their responsibilities, without imposing on others.

I have had coworkers that : wear perfume, play the radio too loud, whistle, call in every weekend, leave work at the drop of a hat for trivial reasons, bring their kids to work, have their kids call every 30 minutes of a 12 hour nightshift (yet not give them the direct line to their section, insuring that their coworkers have to drop whatever they are doing to answer the phone and search for the said coworker), come in late everyday and then gripe about the assignment, or come in on time yet kvetch/gossip for 30 minutes, delaying report, take personal cell phone calls on the floor, etc.

All of these are annoying, disruptive to the unit and patient care, and interfere with their work (whether they will admit it or not) and their coworkers. And they are robbing the rest of us of time and being very disrespectful of the rest of us.

Barring rape, this woman made a choice. She had sex, or got married and had sex, with or without precautions and had a baby. She now needs to take care of the baby. It would be nice to have a better job to do so but not essential. If she wants to have the nicer job, well it includes a responsibility of finding childcare for her classroom time. If she did not want to deal with that responsibility, she shouldn't have been having sex or could have put the child up for adoption. No one required her to have sex. And no one mandates that she is entitled to a "good" job either. Healthy happy children have been raised with less.

Now she expects the rest of us that behaved morally/responsibly and who made sacrifices to just pick up her slack, without complaint.

We are rewarding bad behavior by punishing those that practiced "good" behavior....and we wonder why no one wants to practice responsible behavior anymore.

Those "adorable" babies...many of the classmates frequently think that they are less than adorable...but are too nice to say so. I can say that, because I have been there...the classmates that leave the class ticked and venting (away from the "adoring mother"), because they are working 40 hrs a week, taking 14 semester hours, and finding childcare for their own kids. Just to get their classes disrupted by a squalling child.

The ones that would love to be a mother, but are not for whatever reason get babies put in their arms to hold and say, "Isn't she cute" when it just makes you want to cry and YOU DO NOT WANT TO HOLD THEM!!!!!! But the mother just thinks that her baby is adorable and wanted by everyone, and has absolutely no concept that her child might not be welcome.

And you get treated as a heartless evil witch, when you hand the baby back, or say that babies do not belong in class, or don't just go want along with the crowd.

There are some heartless and non empathetic people posting on this thread. But many of them are on the "pro baby in class" team as well.

I've already appologized for making that statement. However I have higher expectations of nurses than the rest of society which is perhaps why I have been dissapointed with nursing in general. Your argument for personal responsibility is valid from the logical point of view of accepting the results of one's choices. Yet it shows a real lack of concern for the impact of those results. I am more concerned with how this woman's life is going to be a struggle for years to come... not so much that this struggle may be in large part as a result of her own poor decisions. To me, her suffering is the issue.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

I would have felt as you do prior to getting involved in assisting a number of women whose life stories parallel this woman's. I have known a number of them and none have managed to return to school because after getting a full-time job to support their children, they never recuperate the level of support to take the time off to go back to school. I know this to be true, not hypothetically, but real world, hard core.

And by the same token from what I have seen from working with them, many of these women would not have "succeeded" in nursing school/college/life. And all the "support" in the world would have made little difference as they did not have it within theirselves to make the sacrifices necessary for success in these tasks.

People who want something bad enough and are determined enough will succeed. And those that require childcare will find a way to find it, without imposing on those that behaved responsibly and and found childcare with their limited means. Per one of my previous posts, some people could easily trade off childcare duties but decline to do so, because it would be an imposition on their time.

And quite bluntly, attending college should not be considered as the end all and be all of success. I raised a child (not my own) while attending school. While it might have been financially easier to have had a job that paid more, plenty of people raise children without the benefit of a college education, and they do quite well.

Your life is not a disaster if you have to raise your kids on less than a nurses salary. And by the same token, there are plenty of options if you get pregnant "by accident". Unfortunately, many do not want to make the hard choices, especially when it easier just to let the rest of society handle the imposition, provide your support, and give you services without any imposition on your time.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

Life is a struggle for all of us. Anything worthy of value requires struggle. A good marriage takes work, raising a child can mean heartbreak and happiness, and getting where one wants to be in life requires compromises and impositions on one's time.

I have no lack of concern for the hardship and struggles....I accept it as part of life. We all get handed a lot in life, fair or unfair. Those that succeed, do so by adapting. We do people little good for taking care of every little stressor, because then they never learn to deal with the truly hard things that life hands us.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

Those "compassionate" people in class should offer their childcare services to the mother, in question, so that the "heartless" and "nonemphatic" need not be inconvenieced

Too bad they all have to be in class at the same time. :)

As for childcare in hospitals, some magnet hospitals in my area do have childcare for the nurses... of course it's only open til 4 PM (you know the time at which the administrative people go home.. )

There are generally several classes for nurses in varying class levels, as well as other program students in the local college/votech/university where the classes are held. Not all of them are in class at the same time.

And my reference was specifically regarding childcare for the patient's children, not the staff's. As in a place for mothers to dropoff their children during appts/procedures and pick them up later. They may have those, but I have never seen one.

And at this, I will step back out. I have to work tonight.

[fergus51]

I would have felt as you do prior to getting involved in assisting a number of women whose life stories parallel this woman's. I have known a number of them and none have managed to return to school because after getting a full-time job to support their children, they never recuperate the level of support to take the time off to go back to school. I know this to be true, not hypothetically, but real world, hard core.

While I do regret and appoligize for making the blanket statement about nurses not being empathetic, I stand by my "overdramatic" perspective.

:chuckle And I would have agreed with you if I didn't know nurses who DID go back and get their degree after family issues forced them to drop out and get a job. Several of them work on my unit.

Plus, no one is talking about drumming her out of school anyways. What would be the big problem with her taping lectures?