Why Do I Care?

When one new nurse jumps ship after just a few months, it's none of my business. When it becomes a pattern, it hurts everyone: management, the patients, the new grads themselves and (believe it or not) the crusty old bat tasked with precepting them. Nurses Announcements Archive Article

Why do I care that new nurses leave our unit after less than two years -- often after less than one year? Why do I care, when they're adults. They're going to have to live with the consequences of being out of work, or having a resume that reflects job hopping or never learning the basics of nursing because they never stay in one place long enough to be able to learn them. Why is it any of my business?

When one new nurse makes an ill-considered decision with consequences that she personally is going to have to live with, it's none of my business. No matter how much I like the new nurse, no matter how much I was looking forward to working with her when she was off orientation, it's really not my business. One of my orientees quit while I was off work with medical leave. Later, we met for lunch and she told me her reasons for leaving. "I know you like me, Ruby. But Mary (her other preceptor) didn't, and I was afraid I was going to get fired." When pressed, she had no reason for believing that Mary didn't like her, or that she was in danger of being fired. She was just anxious, and without me there to smooth the processes for her and alleviate her anxiety about how she was doing, she couldn't hack it. It probably reflects badly upon me that I was her lifeline and I hadn't managed to keep her expectations realistic. I was so disappointed -- but none of my business. My former orientee and I are now casual friends, meeting occasionally for lunch and conversation. I enjoy the relationship, but would have enjoyed it more if we still worked together.

When the majority of our new nurses leave in less than two years, that's a problem that affects all of us. The majority of nurses that come to our unit do so to get ICU experience for their CRNA school applications. We all know it, even if they don't announce it to the world on their first day (as many do.) Others come here because it looks good on their resume, or to get tuition reimbursement for their NP programs or because their SO is in residency here. Within their first month on the unit, most of our new nurses give us an approximate exit date that has nothing to do with our staffing, our patient population, how we are to work with as colleagues or anything else that has anything to do with anything other than their own goals. There may be a cure for that sort of thing, but not at the staff nurse level.

We have a 30 bed ICU, so our staff is large. That means that we are CONSTANTLY orienting new nurses, and because our core staff of seasoned nurses is finite, that means if you've been there for more than two years, you're going to be precepting. Of course that means that people who should NOT be precepting are forced to anyway. People who are lazy or poor teachers or difficult to get along with are foisted upon new grads as their preceptors -- which isn't good for anyone. But even those seasoned nurses who LOVE new staff and LOVE to teach get burned out with constant precepting.

Precepting is difficult. It's so much easier to just go in there and assess that patient yourself rather than teach a new nurse how to do an assessment, discuss her findings and how they differ with yours (if they do) and what potentially that could mean. It easier to give the dang meds yourself than to wait around while someone else laboriously checks them out of Pyxis, looks them up, considers whether they're appropriate to give right now given whatever else is going on, and then gives them or holds them and notifies the provider. If you're doing it right, precepting a new nurse is one of the most difficult challenges you'll ever have as a nurse.

Those of us who remain at the bedside, mostly do it because we love taking care of our patients. Precepting means that we aren't actually doing the work of taking care of our patients. We're teaching someone else to do it, holding their hands, providing feedback that is hopefully in a format they can understand and accept, documenting their progress and having meetings with management and other preceptors to keep tabs on how they're doing. We're not taking care of our patients, which is what we stayed at the bedside to do.

Constant turnover of new nurses means that we rarely get a break from precepting. And when after all of our hard work with a new nurse, that new nurse leaves as soon as she can, that's demoralizing. In some cases, when you've nurtured a new nurse and mentored them and you know they're the perfect fit for our unit, it's heartbreaking.

And then someone calls us mean and nasty, implies that we're just jealous of opportunities we haven't grasped for ourselves or says that the only reason we're against job hopping is because we're old dinosaurs who don't want anyone to have things better than we did. I have the job I wanted -- my dreaaaaaammmmm job. I'm happy with my life, with my job, with my colleagues. I'm exactly where I want to be. But I sure wish a few others would look a little harder, see what a great job this is and what a great place to work and stay awhile!

I love my preceptor who was tough but a phenomenal teacher and still a great mentor; I'll probably stick around on the unit as long as she is there.

What qualities do you look for in a new grad that you find makes them successful and an asset to the unit?

"And then someone calls us mean and nasty, implies that we're just jealous of opportunities we haven't grasped for ourselves or says that the only reason we're against job hopping is because we're old dinosaurs who don't want anyone to have things better than we did. I have the job I wanted -- my dreaaaaaammmmm job. I'm happy with my life, with my job, with my colleagues. I'm exactly where I want to be. But I sure wish a few others would look a little harder, see what a great job this is and what a great place to work and stay awhile! "

(RVee's original post)

Burn out? I think not. But I wonder just how many people like you she taught how to function as a nurse. How about a little respect for the expert nurses who actually care about this profession?

Indeed. I have great respect for expert senior nurses. I definitely want to me like some of them when I grow up. However, I still stand by my previous comment. Unfortunately, there is a high turnover for new grads and nursing units in general at various facilities. This most likely will not change any time soon. Therefore, it is quite possible that some nurses who have 30 plus years of bedside exp. do get burnt out? Especially when having to precept so often for nurses who only stay for 6mons-1year.

Nice. How many times have you called a Rapid Response because your LPN/ADN education did not prepare you to stabilize a patient? How many times have you called for an ICU nurse to start an IV or read your EKG, run a stroke code or transfer your septic hypotensive pt or mix and bolus streptokinase and titrate Nipride Diltiazem Vasopressin Levophed and all while preparing for intubation and pushing sedation and paralytics and preparing for line insertion? Who responds first to your codes? You are so qualified to tell an experienced nurse how to manage the lack of a stable ICU staff! The next time that you need help, I suggest you just tell the expert nurse with legitimate concerns about competent and stable staffing that she can put up or shut up or start looking for a new job. I want to be there when she puts you in your place.

Yeah your facility should have an ICU of ADN graduates with 2 years of M/S and no ICU experience and no preceptors. Great idea.

I started out in the CVICU so I was rapid response and the code team. When one of our expert nurses step away from her patient, I was the first responder to that code blue and did every thing I could to save that mans' life. I've started plenty IV's, assisted with insertions with Swans and CVP lines. I've given sedation and paralytics more times then I could count. Since I worked in CVICU, I've had my fair share of hypotensive septic patients on various pressors, while continually monitoring there Cardiac Outputs, maps, cvp, and so much more. Read EKG's, and able to let intervene when my patient went into v-tach. I'm not trying to tell Ruby how to run her ICU or her staff. I'm simply offering my opinion and suggestions like everyone else. No, I'm not an expert nurse and not sure exactly what you mean by your post. I'm also currently a RN, not that that matters. Once again, not sure where you were going with this.

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Indeed. I have great respect for expert senior nurses. I definitely want to me like some of them when I grow up. However, I still stand by my previous comment. Unfortunately, there is a high turnover for new grads and nursing units in general at various facilities. This most likely will not change any time soon. Therefore, it is quite possible that some nurses who have 30 plus years of bedside exp. do get burnt out? Especially when having to precept so often for nurses who only stay for 6mons-1year.

Your respect for senior nurses doesn't show through in all of your posts.

I'm familiar with the signs and symptoms of burn-out and experienced in detecting them in myself. Yes, I've been through burn-out, and passed through it intact. But I'm not burnt out now and I do not appreciate being told I'm burned out when clearly I am not. It's condescending and disrespectful.

Your respect for senior nurses doesn't show through in all of your posts.

I'm familiar with the signs and symptoms of burn-out and experienced in detecting them in myself. Yes, I've been through burn-out, and passed through it intact. But I'm not burnt out now and I do not appreciate being told I'm burned out when clearly I am not. It's condescending and disrespectful.

My level of respect may not have shown through this thread. I apologize for that, and for being condescending and disrespectful to you. That was not my intent at all, and it is hard to show intent when communicating online. I'm glad you are not burnt out yet because expert nurses are very much needed at the bedside so that is good to know :)

Being a senior nurse makes you an expert nurse? Serious question.

Being a senior nurse makes you an expert nurse? Serious question.

No, but it's more likely than a new nurse being an expert.

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Being a senior nurse makes you an expert nurse? Serious question.

Being a senior nurse means you've at least had the time to become an expert. Some take better advantage of the opportunity than others.

Specializes in Tele, Med-Surg, MICU.

I get you Ruby Vee. I only spent 3 years in ICU, before I couldn't take working nights any more, and couldn't see hope of moving to days in the near future. (And I regret leaving the bedside, I miss it a lot.)

But with new staff you have no one to watch your back if you have a patient crashing. With new staff you are up a creek if there is a code, or two codes. New staff may not be organized enough to be there to help you turn and clean a patient. New staff may miss subltle signs of decompensation and not intervene until it is too late, so you feel like you are watching the whole floor. You are ALWAYS the resource person - you don't have others with experience to bounce stuff off of - hey, tell me what you think is going on with this patient, or, I can't figure this out...

Where I work the SICU and CVICU are CRNA wanna-be destinations, with high turnover. The MICU has a more stable staff, with a lot of COBs. Because you can't go to CRNA school if you work the MICU.

It is the fact they want money WITHOUT the work; everybody knows that we are NOT in this business for free. :no:

I'm not aware of it being a "fact" that "they" want money without work. What a generalization! Where is your evidence?

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I get you Ruby Vee. I only spent 3 years in ICU, before I couldn't take working nights any more, and couldn't see hope of moving to days in the near future. (And I regret leaving the bedside, I miss it a lot.)

But with new staff you have no one to watch your back if you have a patient crashing. With new staff you are up a creek if there is a code, or two codes. New staff may not be organized enough to be there to help you turn and clean a patient. New staff may miss subltle signs of decompensation and not intervene until it is too late, so you feel like you are watching the whole floor. You are ALWAYS the resource person - you don't have others with experience to bounce stuff off of - hey, tell me what you think is going on with this patient, or, I can't figure this out...

Where I work the SICU and CVICU are CRNA wanna-be destinations, with high turnover. The MICU has a more stable staff, with a lot of COBs. Because you can't go to CRNA school if you work the MICU.

Thank you! The newbies often want to judge us for not helping them enough or for "not being very nice to me, but nobody is too busy to be polite!". But they don't understand what it's like to be the sole experienced nurse on the night shift in a 20 bed unit!

Specializes in nursing education.

Where I work the SICU and CVICU are CRNA wanna-be destinations, with high turnover. The MICU has a more stable staff, with a lot of COBs. Because you can't go to CRNA school if you work the MICU.

I don't understand what all these CRNA students will do, assuming they graduate and become CRNA's. But it sounds like in the meantime, it's not just ICU that's the glamour job, but specifically SICU and CVICU? It's such a hierarchy. My outpatient world must be at the bottom...except for NPs.