What if all docs had to nurses first????? - page 6

Really! I mean think about it..... what problems would this alleviate?? A friend and I were talking about this today. After hearing and reading so much about difficult doctors, wouldn't it be... Read More

  1. by   Tony35NYC
    Quote from ICUsleep
    Yikes. Do you honestly think that doctors "don't do anything" and that nurses do "all the real work"?
    It is a team effort. It is ALL "real work"!! You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, and I can totally understand why some docs might not get along with you if you are openly that dismissive of what they do. :uhoh21:
    Tolerance and understanding have to flow both ways in order for them to occur.
    Sorry...I guess the irony and intended humor in my comment got lost somewhere. But, nevermind.

    Be well.
  2. by   Mimi2RN
    I work with a doc who got his RN for pre-med, and that's how he supported himself for med school. He's a good doc, has a much better idea of what we do, and is very approachable. He's always willing to answer questions, and is great with families. I wish we had more like him!
  3. by   NeuroNP
    Nursing and Medicine are totally separate things. Right now, there's no real "pre-req" for Med school except the basic science courses. You don't have to have a particular degree. I think that's a good thing. I also agree with the poster who said that requires docs to be nurses 1st would reinforce that nursing is a part of the pathway to being a doctor. That is, that nurses are the same as doctors, but didn't go as far in school. That they're inferior because they stopped their education. This isn't the case. The two professions are totally different. I don't want someone assuming that I became a nurse because I didn't wnt to go to the extra lengths of going to Med School.

    Now, having said that, I've always advocated that it should be a pre-req to work in healthcare (not volunteer, WORK) preferrably as a CNA. Most med schools want their applicants to have some "hands-on" experience, but most applicants fullfill that "experience" by volunteering in the hospital a few hours/week for one semester.

    My school requires all nursing students to have a CNA before they can start clinicals. I worked as a CNA for several years while in school and I think that it was the BEST experience that I could have had! I was way ahead of people who hadn't done it. I think docs would have a better understanding of nursing if they did this.

    I originally started out pre-med, but after being exposed to what nursing really is, I changed my mind. I know for me, I had no idea what nursing was really all about until I was a CNA. I think that's a better idea than requiring a nursing degree.
  4. by   Cussin&DiscussinRN
    Quote from fergus51
    I actually find most residents get respect for nurses real fast where I work (if they didn't come that way to begin with).

    I actually don't think it would make a difference. In my experience the jerk docs have no memory of the time before they became gods (thank god they are few and far between, most of our docs are great). It's like the way that some experienced nurses have no patience for new nurses, as though they were never new themselves. They just popped out of the womb with all the knowlege they needed to be nurses
    There are nice people and there are the "others"..no matter what profession we talk about. If someone is condescending and rude, they will be that way whether they are a nurse, a doctor, or the cashier at the grocery store. Unfortunately, some people derive pleasure in humiliating, belittling, or playing mind games with others. Ahhh....if only the world were a perfect place...
  5. by   NeuroNP
    Quote from Cussin&DiscussinRN
    There are nice people and there are the "others"..no matter what profession we talk about. If someone is condescending and rude, they will be that way whether they are a nurse, a doctor, or the cashier at the grocery store. Unfortunately, some people derive pleasure in humiliating, belittling, or playing mind games with others. Ahhh....if only the world were a perfect place...
    Well said.
  6. by   CarVsTree
    I don't know if it would help at all.

    There's a nurse on my unit who was a tech for 3 years. She's hates her job is a miserable person and treats her techs like the stuff on the bottom of her shoe. In addition, every other word out of her mouth is effin.

    I try to just do my work and ignore her crud. But, it can be very difficult. I'm very close to reporting her behavior.

    So, miserable people are miserable people. I don't think it would change the rude obnoxious ones a bit.
    Last edit by CarVsTree on Mar 3, '05
  7. by   MryRose
    I just wanted to stay thank you to everyone who has posted... it's been a really valuable learning tool.

    When I first posted this I was just beginning my pre-req's for nursing and truly believed that if people only "knew" what others must do they would have more tolerance and be more helpful. Oooh... naiveity at best!

    Through my list of courses I have learned that there are people who will be rude, complainers and simply cannot be pleased regardless of what is done for them. Giving in to their tantrums just fuels the fire so to speak.

    I've learned to demand respect from peers and professors. People that bully others generally do not bully me because I will not tolerate it and I think that my general attitude shows this. I am one who is generally in a great mood, but am not a pushover. I've been asked why "so and so" doesn't get "mad" at me but does with them.... I say it's because they know you will let them and I will not.

    There will always be people who will think they are better than others... doctors, nurses, patients. These people will be there and I know I will just have to keep my professionalism, give them the respect that I expect in return.

    Not taking it personally is another big key for me. I figure it's their day that is gonna be bad, not mine.

    Best Wishes!

    MaryRose
  8. by   MorganO
    But, if you do want to come jump down my throat or treat me like you wouldn't spit on me if I were burning, I will not hesitate to write it up and remind you that an associate's degree does not qualify you to question my MEDICAL judgment.

    :angryfire It is not always an associate degree nurse that may be questionning your medical judgement. They do hand out BSN and PhD diplomas in nursing. If it was an associate degree nurse that has lost their patience with you, I agree that some sort of recourse is needed. Imagine the frustration with the nurses who have to tolerate the mistreatment by another profession with no recourse. Most hospitals do not have a "no tolerance" policy and nurses (nor other paraprofessionals) have any way to correct the abusive behavior. Physicians, on the other hand, use the system to which you are reffering to and have recourse.
  9. by   directcare4me
    I've worked with really good doctors, really bad doctors, really nice doctors, really rude doctors who are good at the practice of medicine, really rude doctors who are not good at the practice of medicine. I've also worked with nurses who are good, not so good, rude, nice, etc. The attendings I work with are for the most part respectful and nice to work with; it's clear from time to time that they don't know all about "what we do", but it doesn't frustrate me or cause me any concern, because, I don't really know all about what they do either. I do know that I don't want to do it.

    This is probably not going to come across like I mean for it to, but sometimes I think that nurses complaining or being frustrated because "they (doctors, management, etc) don't know what all we do" sounds like what insecure people would say. If you don't need their approval you don't care if they "know what we do". You just do it and go home after your shift. You have mature professional exchanges with the other members of the health care team knowing that each of you has a different part to play. You don't worry about wondering if they "appreciate all you do". You just do your part, and any misunderstandings on the part of those who are mistaken about the scope of your practice, or the amount of time it takes to do a certain task, you politely and professionally correct them. "No, that order is too vague, you need to be more specific, thank you", or "yes it always takes more time to draw up the Fentanyl than you would think, I went to work on it as soon as we hung up". Without defensiveness, without exasperation, just matter-of-factly.

    Sorry if this sounds like a rant. But I really get frustrated with the attitudes of nurses sometimes. I think we are our own worst enemy in gaining respect and admiration sometimes. And we are SO GOOD at what we do, and we deserve respect and admiration from all members of the team, but sometimes we focus too much on what bothers us about the other guys. Most of the time, if you interact with someone professionally, and with the certainty that you ARE respected then you will be.
  10. by   nursbee04
    Quote from MorganO
    But, if you do want to come jump down my throat or treat me like you wouldn't spit on me if I were burning, I will not hesitate to write it up and remind you that an associate's degree does not qualify you to question my MEDICAL judgment.

    :angryfire It is not always an associate degree nurse that may be questionning your medical judgement. They do hand out BSN and PhD diplomas in nursing. If it was an associate degree nurse that has lost their patience with you, I agree that some sort of recourse is needed. Imagine the frustration with the nurses who have to tolerate the mistreatment by another profession with no recourse. Most hospitals do not have a "no tolerance" policy and nurses (nor other paraprofessionals) have any way to correct the abusive behavior. Physicians, on the other hand, use the system to which you are reffering to and have recourse.
    (I assume you are quoting PAC's post in the first paragraph.)
    Please, please please excuse me if I have misunderstood your post - If I have I apologize in advance - but:

    Why would it be cause for recourse if an associate degree nurse "lost patience" or questioned a doc or PA? Why would you hold a fellow RN in the same setting to a different standard? I honestly hope that is not what you meant to imply. Again I apologize if I am off base.

    Back to the OP's topic, I think it would be wonderful if both doctors and nurses could shadow each other. It's never a bad idea to have a better understanding of those you work closely with.
    Last edit by nursbee04 on Mar 3, '05
  11. by   MorganO
    Quote from nursbee04
    (I assume you are quoting PAC's post in the first paragraph.)
    Please, please please excuse me if I have misunderstood your post - If I have I apologize in advance - but:

    Why would it be cause for recourse if an associate degree nurse "lost patience" or questioned a doc or PA? Why would you hold a fellow RN in the same setting to a different standard? I honestly hope that is not what you meant to imply. Again I apologize if I am off base.

    Back to the OP's topic, I think it would be wonderful if both doctors and nurses could shadow each other. It's never a bad idea to have a better understanding of those you work closely with.
    I'm sorry you misunderstood. I was trying to point out to the writer that he assumed RN's have an associate degree and was venting my frustration with his ability to address an RN's bad behavior, but that same nurse has no recourse when she is treated poorly.
    I don't think that professionals need to shadow one another. Ultimately there should be mutual respect. The problem seems to be that physicians in our facility believe that they can cross the line with their frustration and there is no recourse from administration.
  12. by   MorganO
    I'm sorry you misunderstood. I was trying to point out to the writer that he assumed RN's have an associate degree and was venting my frustration with his ability to address an RN's bad behavior, but that same nurse has no recourse when she is treated poorly.
    I don't think that professionals need to shadow one another. Ultimately there should be mutual respect. The problem seems to be that physicians in our facility believe that they can cross the line with their frustration and there is no recourse from administration.

    Sorry I am new to this..
    Last edit by MorganO on Mar 4, '05 : Reason: thought message was not posted
  13. by   FranEMTnurse
    Personally, I think it should be a requirement for them the first two years anyway. It might make them more compassionate and understanding with the nurses and the patients. Too many patients, including yours truly, are treated as though they're just another number for the money that winds up in their pockets.:hatparty:

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