Universal Health Coverage? - page 7

This topic came up last night in our seminar. Again, we struggle and struggle with this concept. I often times look at Medicare and how they handle things such as coverage, reimbursment, etc. As... Read More

  1. by   rncountry
    Hillary Clinton DID NOT make such a statement, that is one of those urban legends. That story has made the rounds time and again with no basis in fact. Look it up, it ranks right up there with Nostradamus predicted what would happen on 9/11. While I don't know that I like Hillary much, I also think a bit of common sense would make it apparent the ANA would have howled at that. I don't think the ANA howls when they need to very often, but I can't see them letting that go by.
    Next, why does anyone think that a universal healthcare system here would have to look like anyone else's? While we would obviously have a model it does not mean it can't be tweaked to fit the needs of this country. That includes decent pay for nurses. The world if full of possibilities, it is closed only when you decide it is closed and what you want is not worth pursueing or working for. At some point in time the only way for nurses to have what we want, what has been talked to death for years is to reach out there and take it. Quit waiting for someone to do it for you, quit worrying about whether it will upset someone or be unladylike. But just do it. Nurses could led a revolution in healthcare if we really wanted to, though that would mean frankly, that some old guard nursing leaders would have to be brushed aside. I guess it all depends on how bad you want something.
    PRN nurse, I just want to let you know that I originally wasn't going to say anything to the guy at SS. But after I got out to the car I just couldn't not say something. Don't worry my mom knows she has a daughter with a rotten temper and a blunt mouth.
    I also have to say this. It is delightful to have a discussion that can engender some passionate feelings, that has stayed a interesting conversation with no nasty comments or ill will anyway. I appreciate this.
  2. by   fergus51
    Originally posted by VickyRN
    It's true, Hillary said it. Bad thing is, she has her eye on the Whitehouse in 2004, but I digress.... Ever wonder why so many Canadian nurses are down here??? Can't find fulltime employment under their socialistic system. Also can make better $$$ down here. I'm afraid Mattsmom81 is right. Government run health care==LOW PAID NURSES (just look at salaries for nurses in health dept's and schools).
    But where are the Canadian nurses going? You don't meet a lot of them in Mississippi, or Louisianna, etc. Wages here are between about 18 and 24 US$ (top end of the payscale reached after 9 years is 60 000$ CDN so about 40 000$ American plus whatever ot you want to put in). A lot of nurses in the US make less than that....
    Last edit by fergus51 on May 1, '02
  3. by   fergus51
    I just went to a lecture from a political science professor about health care, went into globalisation and the American Empire, etc. He had an excellent book there called "Universal Health Care, what the United States can learn from the Canadian experience". Authors are Armstrong, Armstrong and Fagan. I would highly reccomend it. It points out the fact that Americans spend more money on healthcare and that the care (as measured by patient outcomes) is not better because of the extreme differences between the rich and the poor. Also discusses the problems the Canadian system has and how to improve it. It is an excellent read if you want some facts about the issue. I've already requested it from my library so I can read the whole thing...
  4. by   VickyRN
    Thanks, Fergus, for the book information. Sounds like a good read and a valuable resource. Have jotted that title down for future researching.
  5. by   JMP
    As a Canadian nurse I have some views on these issues (what a surprise eh???) !!!

    I have thought long and hard about going to the States. I think the Canadian nurses who do go are drawn by the differences in the dollar, not better conditions. Believe me better conditions DO NOT exisit in the states, esp after reading the post, "would this pt be one to one in your ICU).

    Canadian nurses are also drawn to the fact that you have sign on bonuses ( not here yet) and the fact that tution will often be paid for by hospitals. Many Candians however, come back after a year or two of working and with the diff in the dollar, pay off their student loans, ect. Another thing we do not have here are travelling nurses, and that attracts some of the RN's also.

    What we do have here is a strong concern and heartfelt belief that health care is a RIGHT for every citizen. Our hospitals are not run like a business venture and the all mighty buck does NOT rule. We in Ontario, have strong union, and the top run ( 8 year wage scale) makes almost 33.00 dollars an hour. They are not poor, they are not hard done by. Being sick in this country is not a crime, and when you walk thru the hospital doors, your ability to pay HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR right to health care.
  6. by   mattsmom81
    I will also have to read the book Fergus recommended...thanks!
    I'm interested in how the Canadian healthcare system is funded, and how nurse salaries and strong union voice stays up. Love those nurse patient ratios in Canada! Too bad you don't use travelers or I may be up there ...

    Excellent thread guys and gals!
  7. by   JMP
    Fergus,

    Sounds like a good book and I will get a copy and read it.

    I think after reading some of the earlier posts, I have been working nights and was a conference too this week, there is alot of misconceptions about nursing in Canada.

    However, I think now my focus will be for a change in location that focuses on other parts of Canada, the UK or even down under.

    My eyes where really opened when I read the "would this pt be one to one in your ICU". Now that thread is worth reading for any Canadian considering the States, esp if they are an ICU RN.
  8. by   JMP
    Mattsmom

    Salaries for RN's in Canada are easily accessible. For instance, I work in Ontario and the web site for our union is ONA the Ontario Nurses Association. The new contract, which was recently signed, gives the top RN's 31.45 an hour, plus benefits. If you want to work part time the rate is 38.14 an hour ( now that is with in lieu of benefits). Our benefits include sick time, vac time, dental, long term disability, vision care, ect.

    There is of course night shift, weekend shift premiums on top of these hourly wage rates and they range from 1.30 to 1.50 an hour or so.
    J.
  9. by   CaronRN58
    Have just read alll of the posts and I see that abuse of ER services seems to be universal. It would seem to me that having an NP running an urgent care clinic in every ER would take care of the people that all ready think it's a clinic. It was tried at our ER and worked well. Unfortunately the NP was a nursing instructor and had to go back to teaching in the fall, and the slot has not been filled year round.
  10. by   fergus51
    I am really glad you guys are going to look into the book. It is excellent

    On a side note, I also learned today the NP business is getting attended to here. Looks like we NPs will be allowed to practice independantly here, not just in rural areas that can't afford a doctor, pretty soon. They are currently working out the competencies and legalities

    And mattsmom, our union website is www.bcnu.org I believe. The salary info is available there. Our BON website, www.rnabc.bc.ca also has links to other unions across the country. Currently the best paid nurses are in Ontario (where JMP is), Alberta and BC (where I am).

    JMP, I think that is the biggest difference between the American health care system and ours. The gap between a good hospital and a bad one is huge!!!
    Last edit by fergus51 on May 2, '02
  11. by   rncountry
    Fergus, thanks for the book. I believe that will come in handy. I am going to have to be doing some research and really make sure I know what I am talking about. I decided to put my money where my mouth is and contacted the state democratic party for the state of Michigan and had an extensive conversation with the gentleman that turfs people who want to help to various areas. We talked about the nursing shortage, managed care and universal care. He invited me to participate in helping form the healthcare platform for the democratic party in the state. I was excited! I don't know if anything I can bring to the table will ever make a difference but I am at least willing to try.
    So I have a great deal of learning to do to make sure I have all my ducks in a row. Any help appreciated.
  12. by   fiestynurse
    Here are some other books that are good:

    "Health Care: Opposing View Points" by James D. Torr
    Has short essays on various health care topics.

    "Betrayal of Trust: The Collapse of Global Public Health"
    by Laurie Garrett
    Chapter 4 has history of U.S. system.
  13. by   Q.
    Some interesting Emergency Room statistics:

    In 1998, for all US Emergency Rooms, there was an estimated 100.4 million visits to the ED that year.

    Of that 100.4, 19% were considered emergent, in where care needed to be delivered within 15 minutes or less.

    31% were urgent, where care was needed within 15-30 minutes.


    This comes from Sultz, H & Young, K. (2001) Health Care USA: Understanding Its Organization and Delivery , 3rd ed.

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Universal Health Coverage?