Survey: Should the U.S. recruit nurses from other countries? - page 2
The results from allnurses.com survey were: Survey: Should the U.S. recruit nurses from other countries? Out of 2630 participants: No 56.20 % Yes 43.80 % If you would like to post... Read More
Jul 2, '01phyll,
Don't take this personally, and please understand, we in our field of nursing are unfortunately used to being undercut and taken advantage of. Just when the market starts to look like we will start getting a fair shake, another thing happens to block us from getting what we want and sooooo deserve!
Personally speaking as a staff nurse who believes in unionization and belongs to one, we just settled a contract with our hosp. and Did Not strike!
Then this week we find out our hospital has given our PRN nurses (who are not required to be union and who get no benefits) a Big Pay Raise, they will be making $28.00 per hour and if they commit to working one 12 hr. shift a week they will be making $35.00 per hour, I make $23.53 per hour (I used to think that was pretty good)
These PRN nurses are not on hosp. committees,don't help to orient. new nurses and are not in charge ever, in short they come in: work, and go home, they have no "investment " in making our unit better. They also do not work holidays or weekends,
Well I for one feel like I just got slapped in the face!
This will not encourage a stronger core of permanent nurses in our unit, it will encoourage more to become PRN nurses, weakening our unit.....so I feel recruiting out of our country nurses will just weaken our already feeble stand for bettering our profession and hospitals...just my opinion.......imaRN
Jul 2, '01I find it humurous that some talk about colleges must be at the same level as our and they have to have the same rigorous training to get licensed and yet there are programs here in the states you can get your degree in a year or on line and all I have heard about them is, they pass the same licensing test.
Jul 2, '01Well, Navy Nurse- I am the one who spoke of colleges being on the same level, yada yada- AND I do not for one minute think that a year of online courses is the same as classroom attendance. THAT is why I went BACK to school with my LPN to EARN the R in front of my N.
So I sure agree with you there.
I am talking about those who are educated in Third world countries, Phyll.
I have worked with some of these nurse and I do not care if they can pass the test. The ones I worked with would work long, long hours for little pay, and crappy benefits,which is why I do not work there any more, they ruined the pay scale. Or should I say, the management let the pay scale go because of their cheap labor?
Not to mention many of them were just not competent nurses. In fact most were not.
The worst part was when they insisted on speaking their own language even in front of patients. It is just RUDE.
Jul 2, '01I have no problem with individuals from other countries making the effort to work in the US. I would welcome them with open arms. The problem comes when an effort by the hospitals to recruit large numbers of nurses from outside the US in order to staff the hospital. There are enough nurses right now in the US!!! They just don't work in nursing due to the wages and working conditions. (What other profession are you required to lift 100+ lbs. then be blamed for your injury because you didn't "lift correctly.") Once again, there are enough nurses (yes, there is a predicted shortage, but that hasn't come about yet)!!! There is a shortage of NURSES WORKING AS NURSES because they refuse to work under the conditions set forth by the majority of US hospitals.
As for the issue on prn staff having higher wages, I think that's OK and here's why: your compensation for working takes two forms (1) wages and (2) benefits. Benefits are usually 30-40 % of your wages, so the prn staffer who does not get benefits should have their salary adjusted by this amount in order to be fairly compensated. Another issue is that if the hospital doesn't hire its own prn staff and is forced to use agency nurses, the cost can run up to $50 per hour with about $30 per hour of that going to the nurse. Soooo, the bottom line is that fiscally it makes since to employ PRN's. It prevents the permanent staff from having to work forced overtime, it saves the hospital money (and who knows that MIGHT translate into higher wages for the permanent staff in the long run. The moral of the story is to welcome these PRN'ers with open arms. Develop friendships and professional relationships with them. Its in YOUR best interest that they're there.
Jul 2, '01This is in reply to navy nurse.
I did not only train for one year nor did I achieve any credits online. In the UK it takes 3 years "rigorous" training before you can become a registerd nurse and I believe our universities are on par with American universities. After all, we do have places like St Andrews, Oxford Cambridge to name but a few.
As student nurses, we have to work in the wards (in most cases are counted in staff numbers) as well as study for exams and research and write essays.
I can understand why American nurses are angry because they feel that their problems are not being addressed, because we are in the same predicament in the UK and we are also grossly understaffed.
Jul 2, '01Phyll, I think Navy nurse was criticizing US programs not yours.
I was one of those foreign recruits and have been back in Canada for a while. Just today I saw an ad for nurses in Honolulu with the ever present promises of signing bonuses and relocation $. I personally feel we need to start recruiting foreign nurses in Canada (especially Canadian nurses living in the US). Even if every nurse with a liscence and every new grad stayed we would still be short. We only graduate about 50% of the nurses we need each year. My experience in working with Brits, Aussies, South Africans, Chinese and even an AMERICAN (gasp!) have been very positive. I agree that credentials need to be checked and they are. If anything a lot of our foreing nurses are actually better trained in L&D as they were midwives in their home countries.
The issue of losing pay or benefits with the coming of foreigners has not been a problem here because we all work for the same employer and in the same union so we get the same benes and wages and our employer can't just change it unilaterally.
Jul 2, '01I differentiate between nurses from English speaking countries (Phyll) who choose to come here to live and those from third world countries who do not speak understandable English, do not understand instructions, and whose cultural background interferes with communicating effectively. I worked with one nurse who could not comprehend why a C-spine collar was needed for a patient whose neck had not been cleared. She couldn't understand why the patient needed to be in a collar when they hadn't yet had their x-rays! We need to start recruiting with U.S. nurses.
Jul 2, '01That is correct fergus, I am NOT criticizing anybodies program. I am just stating that these foriegn nurses pass the same test the U.S. nurses pass and historically that has been the agruement presented on this board for many issues, ADN vs. BSN, etc etc.
You might as well get used to it though because foriegn nurses are going to keep on coming. I just read in a Nursing Management article where some aspects of healthcare want the government to lift the limit on foriegn nurses that are allowed to come to the states. They think the can fill all vacancies if this happens.
Jul 3, '01I really think the US needs to retain the competent nurses they
have now before recruiting from other countries. If working
conditions weren't so mediocre (at best) than the reputation
of nursing as a profession would be more inviting. The facts are,
we run our tails off with mucho responsibility on a wage that
is too close to the poverty level for comfort. Things need to
change. A band-aid solution is not what we need now.Last edit by lv2ski on Jul 18, '01
Jul 3, '01Once again I would like to repeat. There are PLENTY of nurses NOW, but not working in hospital nursing. Who told you there was a shortage? Hospitals who are want the available pool as large as posible so they don't have to work to recuit, pay, etc. SHOW ME THE NUMBERS!!!!
Jul 3, '01Originally posted by Diana61
Once again I would like to repeat. There are PLENTY of nurses NOW, but not working in hospital nursing. Who told you there was a shortage? Hospitals who are want the available pool as large as posible so they don't have to work to recuit, pay, etc. SHOW ME THE NUMBERS!!!!Last edit by lv2ski on Jul 18, '01
Jul 3, '01There sure is a shortage if the nurses won't work in the hospitals, where, when I last checked, most of the most critically ill patients are. Sorry for the bit of sarcasm there but it IS a shortage. My budget allows for my day nurses to have only 4 patients apiece, my nights no more than 6 apiece. And I don't have any incentive for me to keep staffing at less than that. But my nurses now have to take at least 6 apiece on days (surgical floor) and up to 9 apiece at night because I CANNOT find nurses to hire for the postions I have open. And I am a manager that gets out and takes patients.
Whew, I'll get off my soapbox. Just a bit frustrated I guess.
Jul 3, '01Clarice,
You hit the nail on the head. There is a shortage of nurses WILLING TO WORK FOR THE PAY AND CONDITIONS of hospital nursing today. There are too many other options available for smart young men and women today for them to accept the limitations put on them by today's hospitals. This is not to say that the nurse managers aren't doing the most they can with what they have available to them. But, more money needs to come down the pipeline for nurses salaries and to pay for staff to support them. For example, the over 40 nurses might just stay on a few extra years if they didn't have to lift patients. Why are RN's still lifting patients? This could easily be done by young strong lifting teams hired specifically for that purpose that are crosstrained to do other non-nursing tasks. Personally, if I was hired with the understanding that I didn't have to lift anything over, say, 20 lbs, I would be much more inclined to return to hospital nursing. But as it is, its just too risky.
But, getting back to the original subject; if more nurses were willing to work in hospitals (see above), there would be no need to brings in large groups of nurses with foreign training. Unfortunately I don't think that's going to happen any time soon. In the meantime, we do need nurses willing to work there. There are many, many very good (equivalent) outside the States but also some not so good ones. If we must have foreign trained nurses we must insist on those only from quality programs with the ability to understand and be understood in both written and spoken English.