So your boss/manager tells you...

Nurses General Nursing

Published

To do something you're uncomfortable with/not trained for. I know this is an issue a lot of nurses face, and my issue may seem frivolous but I still wanted to get some opinions.

Diabetic foot care... I've been working for 2 years, and have relatively little experience in this area (I work in LTC, we have previously used designated & trained people to fill this position). Recently over the last year or so they phased that position out and put the responsibility of diabetic patient foot care on the staff nurses, though we still usually manage to have our trained foot care nurses handle the worst cases.

I have no problem cutting toenails (I know some people do and just won't do it). My issue is when my nursing manager tells me to use the last 4 hours of my shift to go around the building and do "basic foot care". We have PSWs that do the regular foot care, and if the resident has diabetes they can receive footcare by the applicable RN or by an in-home footcare clinic if they opt to pay for it. There is no standard differentiation between a "basic care" diabetic and a diabetic requiring specific services, aside from (possibly) those who need a dremmel for thickened nails and those who don't. This is the only separating line my employer seems to have drawn which apparently dictates when a certified foot care nurse is required (simply because an RN in my position cannot operate a dremmel).

I brought a concern through email today that I felt uncomfortable (though I still followed direction, just did not do diabetics with obvious circulation/skin integrity issues) with this expectation. I feel that if you have a certified foot care nurse come perform diabetic foot care, that you're doing it for more than just the fact that they can legally use a dremmel. I asked if we could either get some training in this area or if they could just exclusively utilize nurses trained for this purpose. Is it reasonable to ask for training with this type of issue? My manager countered back to my concern with "you are expected to do basic foot care". I asked if she could clarify that... because I'm worried that, even with some theory and knowledge, doing even "basic footcare" on a compromised diabetic would better and more safely served through someone who has the skill and training. It's not that i don't have the confidence, I just realize my own limitations as a relatively new graduate who does not have comparatively as much experience as some of the veterans.

Is my concern valid? This would definitely not be the first time we have been "expected" to do something we may not necessarily have training for. I've practically become an expert at "winging" it. It is starting to seem more and more that every time management is questioned we get ridiculed and shot down, so a lot of times it's easier to "just do it". Although I wish my nursing manager would put her license on the line for those of us she refuses to listen to when she "expects" us to do XY and Z as part of the job description.

Specializes in ICU, telemetry, LTAC.

My question for the manager would be what does she think is basic foot care? I could wash 'em and on some folks that is a job and a half. I would have serious reservations about taking a dremel (mentioned in some post back there) to people's feet without training. Actually I just wouldn't do anything with a dremel near a patient, that thing requires really precise control and it's a power tool for pete's sake. A foot bath and a good scrub without burning the feet would just about be what I could do.

Thanks for all the insight.

I spoke with my manager again today through email and she basically said that there is an expectation for all registered staff in the building to be performing at least "basic" diabetic footcare. While it is true that RNs here (those trained and those not) have been completing the task, I am the first one making a stink about it. I don't know what they learned in their nursing school, but in the 4 years i attended, nowhere did i receive even vague training on how to do proper foot care on a circulation and/or skin integrity-compromised diabetic.

I spoke with my union president and she suggested to look up a foot care course at a local college and approach my manager with it and ask (our contract does have some coverage through employer for continuing learning & certification) if the employer would sponsor it. I did so and presented it to her. She stated that she has no room in the budget for it but if I can "wait til next year" she would be able to fit it in. Anecdotally, my union president started giving me pointers, telling me to cut straight accross and "just be careful"...

What do I do now? I asked for training and was indirectly denied (as long as I don't mind waiting a year). I do not feel confident in my ability to perform this task on any diabetic, but especially one with advanced disease and possibly compromised lower extremities. If it falls on me again to perform this task - especially before i can receive training - what should I do? I did it yesterday because she sprung it on me last minute and didn't give me a choice. After thinking about it and my rights as a nurse and a patient's rights for competent care, I don't feel comfortable performing this task at my level of training. I know her and i know that if i counter her email with "Until I'm trained I cannot perform this task" I'm going to get "Then you are not meeting the expectations" in return...

Am I not meeting an employment expectation by making it clear that at this time I do not have enough skill for this task?

Is this something I should be calling my licencing college about? If this task truly is a general RN skill (which is the arguement at this point, she states it is - I'm not so sure) then it would be my responsibility as a graduate with their degree to know this right?

Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.

Perhaps the best you can do in this situation is to take responsibility for your own education and go get whatever education you need to do the job safely. Ideally, your employer would provide it. But if your employer is not going to do that ... then the next best thing would be to go get it yourself. That way, you would be more confident in your abilities and able to perform up to the level expected by your employer -- and needed by your patients.

If there is no special certification required for the foot care procedures, you should be able to find the information you need somewhere and a more experienced nurse to demonstrate any particular skill you need assistance with. I know of no facility (LTC or hospital) that is able to provide every staff member with special training for every procedure. Sometimes, you just have to step up to the plate and take responsibility for your own learning and performance level by seeking the education you need yourself. You're not being unreasonable to ask for it ... but if the answer is "No," then you owe it to your patients to get it yourself.

Nursing home administrators are not licensed by the state?

In Florida, the Long Term Care Unit of the Bureau of Health Facility Regulation licenses nursing homes.

In fact, in Florida, a massage establishment owner must get a massage establishment license.

Holy Nightingale...

The state issues you, and regulates, the nursing license to practice. The facility in which you work does not issue, nor regulate, the nursing license to practice. I am not talking about facility licensing to operate. I am talking about nursing licenses such as the LPN or RN license to practice, issued by the Board of Nursing.

I am not sure how to write this to be more understandable.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

Basic foot care does not include a dremel tool. You can easily hurt the patient nick the skin...they get an infection/MRSA it turns to gangrene and you get sued.

I would check with your state board. I would check the policy of the facility. I would check wioth the BON. I would check into what it takes to be certified to do pedicures....what sterilization needs to be done between each patient

Perhaps the best you can do in this situation is to take responsibility for your own education and go get whatever education you need to do the job safely. Ideally, your employer would provide it. But if your employer is not going to do that ... then the next best thing would be to go get it yourself. That way, you would be more confident in your abilities and able to perform up to the level expected by your employer -- and needed by your patients.

If there is no special certification required for the foot care procedures, you should be able to find the information you need somewhere and a more experienced nurse to demonstrate any particular skill you need assistance with. I know of no facility (LTC or hospital) that is able to provide every staff member with special training for every procedure. Sometimes, you just have to step up to the plate and take responsibility for your own learning and performance level by seeking the education you need yourself. You're not being unreasonable to ask for it ... but if the answer is "No," then you owe it to your patients to get it yourself.

You're probably right, and I expected this might end up being the case. Haha... well she better get used to me leaving toenails fairly long and referring many people up if she expects me to wiz through this like an expert. At least until I find a program that doesn't cost an arm and a leg to pay for myself

Holy Nightingale...

The state issues you, and regulates, the nursing license to practice. The facility in which you work does not issue, nor regulate, the nursing license to practice. I am not talking about facility licensing to operate. I am talking about nursing licenses such as the LPN or RN license to practice, issued by the Board of Nursing.

I am not sure how to write this to be more understandable.

* * * *

There is a reason why the state licenses you and not the facility. Protection of the patients comes before protection of employment.

It seems pretty clear that you're stating that states don't license facilities. How else could that be interpreted?

Actually states license Nursing Homes too.

ScottE corrected your statement. He was right.

The state gives you your nursing license, not the facility.

Context.

You meant to say, The state give you your nursing license; the facility does not. You left your modifier dangling.

Specializes in nursing education.

Checklist for WOCNCB Certification - Wound Care Certification - WOCNCB

Foot care certification info from WOCN association. There is also a lot of posting here on AN about foot care nursing, if you look under "specialties" there is not only a section devoted to foot care nursing, but also the nursing entrepreneur section also has some postings about this specialty/certification. In other words, it is a specialty, beyond what is provided in any nursing program.

Foot care is a big deal in LTC with elderly, compromised, and diabetic populations. I agree with the above poster who stated that a good wash/dry/cream if needed is "basic nursing care." When I worked in LTC a podiatrist came on a regular basis with his own staff and all sorts of power tools. MD. Foot specialist. Not the nurse (me) who was responsible for a whole wing full of people.

This manager is not doing right by her nurses or her residents.

Specializes in NICU/L&D, Hospice.

In my state, if you are performing a nursing task beyond your education or training (even if it is a procedure an RN is allowed to do), then you are practicing OUTSIDE of your scope.

Specializes in ORTHOPAEDICS-CERTIFIED SINCE 89.

I don't believe anyone has asked this. DO YOU HAVE PERSONAL ? If you don't then get it ASAP. Then ask your insurance company what you asked us. A diabetic's foot nick, prick, cut can turn into a serious condition if the skin is cut or the nails are where they can touch another toe. Having a license as a Nurse does not automatically create a funnel that knowledge flows into you. My first advice is insurance and don't say the facility covers you. THAT IS A MYTH.

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