Shocked At Nurses Actions Tonight - page 5

I work part time at a local SNF / rehab faciliety. On PM and NOC shift it is staffed with 3 or 4 LPNs and one RN charge nurse (tonight it was me). One of our LPNs is a sweet young girl from a very... Read More

  1. by   TrudyRN
    I think you went overboard. You could have just given her a different patient for the shift and then followed up later, tomorrow or next week, with the boss and figured out a less severe, disruptive way to handle this. You don't want to lose a nurse. She just needs to be educated and helped to overcome her prejudices.
  2. by   TrudyRN
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** I fully intend to report her actions to the BON on Monday. As it is Thanksgiving today I can not do it sooner. The DON and other nursing managment are all off until Monday (though if I felt the need I could call her in). I am in charge of PM shift until Monday. I called the LPN today and informed her that her services would not be required for the rest of the holiday weekend. What will happen when the DON returns on Monday I can't say. It leaves us short staffed but I am more than willing to work the floor for the rest of the weekend.
    It has occured to me that I may in trouble with managment for sending her home for the whole weekend but I have a regular full time job in an ICU and this faciliety is a part time thing for me that I was really doing more as a favor than anything else (though the money is nice).
    I want to thank those that have written in support of my actions. This is a very rural area and all this has taken place on a holiday weekend. I have chosen not to discuss the incident with the day and NOC RNs until AFTER I have discussed it with the DON on Monday. Having a chance to get some support from fellow RNs (and soon to be RNs) has been helpful.
    Something this serious and which leaves you short-staffed should be discussed immediately with the DON. Don't wait for Monday.

    What did the LPN say when you told her not to report to work?

    What if you or someone else calls off? And you're ready to throw the whole gig away. What is up with that?
  3. by   ana tomy
    I just can't believe there is a debate about this at all. I can't imagine someone wanting to be a nurse with prejudice like that. It is embarassing to our profession..it is embarassing as a person for people to behave this way. When we get a patient who is a prisoner(shackled,guards)we are not told what his crime is...I am glad because I don't have time to judge him..not that I would. He came in with his illness not his crime,religion,race or sexual preference. JMO
  4. by   PMFB-RN
    [quote=HappyNurse82;1938507

    I have a very different perspective of this situation. I recently got out of the Army after 2 tours in Iraq (a year long each) and a short stint in Afgan.

    I guess, my point is, I'm not sure that I will ever treat a muslim patient. I've been shot at by those *bleeps* as has my husband-several times. [/quote]

    *** FWIW, First, thank you for your service to our country.
    Second I'll give you a little background. I too am an army vet. I served 8 years in the active army (1990-1998). My first 5 years were spent as a medic in the infantry, four of those years in Rangers. I have not only been shot at by muslims I have been shot, twice (also blown up once and stabed once). I currently have an artificial right hip becuase the origional was shot away October 3rd, 1993 in Somalia and yes it was muslims who shot me. I was also shot in the back of the head that day by a 9mm pistol in the hands of a muslim. My Kevlar stoped the round but it still caused a bad concussion. Other muslims shot at me in Iraq (First Gulf War), Bosnia, and the Philippines. As a medic I also treated many, many muslims. Some very shortly after I or my buddies shot them.
    None of that has anything at all to do with the patient currently under my care on PM shift during this holiday weekend.
    I served with several muslims in the US army infantry and as far as I know this particular patient could be a vet as well.
    I took the actions I did becuase this patient is a human being and under my care as charge nurse and the only RN in the faciliety on PM shift during a holiday weekend. I have done what I have done as much for myself as for the patient.
    PMFB-RN
    SFC US Army, (Ret)
  5. by   PMFB-RN
    Something this serious and which leaves you short-staffed should be discussed immediately with the DON. Don't wait for Monday.

    *** You may be right. I will consider it.

    What did the LPN say when you told her not to report to work?

    *** She didn't come to the phone so I left a message with her dad (my barber BTW). I didn't give any specific reason to him but said that if she had any questions she was free to call.

    What if you or someone else calls off?

    *** There are other nurses, regular staff, I could call in and I will if I have to. I will not ruin their holiday weekend if I don't have to. If something comes up I will call in who I need to. About half the staff on this weekend are students trying to make some money while home for the holiday.

    And you're ready to throw the whole gig away. What is up with that?

    *** Sorry if I wasn't clear. I am not ready to throw anything away. I enjoy the job as it is near my home, pays pretty well and is pretty much stress free comparied to the ICU. I was just thinking about what will happen if the DON does not support me.
  6. by   HappyNurse82
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** FWIW, First, thank you for your service to our country.
    Second I'll give you a little background. I too am an army vet. I served 8 years in the active army (1990-1998). My first 5 years were spent as a medic in the infantry, four of those years in Rangers. I have not only been shot at by muslims I have been shot, twice (also blown up once and stabed once). I currently have an artificial right hip becuase the origional was shot away October 3rd, 1993 in Somalia and yes it was muslims who shot me. I was also shot in the back of the head that day by a 9mm pistol in the hands of a muslim. My Kevlar stoped the round but it still caused a bad concussion. Other muslims shot at me in Iraq (First Gulf War), Bosnia, and the Philippines. As a medic I also treated many, many muslims. Some very shortly after I or my buddies shot them.
    None of that has anything at all to do with the patient currently under my care on PM shift during this holiday weekend.
    I served with several muslims in the US army infantry and as far as I know this particular patient could be a vet as well.
    I took the actions I did becuase this patient is a human being and under my care as charge nurse and the only RN in the faciliety on PM shift during a holiday weekend. I have done what I have done as much for myself as for the patient.
    PMFB-RN
    SFC US Army, (Ret)
    Then you of all people should really understand the situation. Like I said, doesn't mean she's right, but....

    I guess (and you'll probably be the ONLY one who gets this) to me, it's like having a soldier FTR for COB formation and recomending court martial, whereas a 4856 or even Company level AR-15 would be more appropriate. A lot of my 91WM6 soldiers, who are also now civillians...really do share my thoughts and feelings, and probably, in some distinct way-you get what I'm saying-even if you find her find her actions unreputable.

    I do understand the course of action being taken, but...it's hard, I guess, like I said, I understand the problem..just not the POA (plan of action). I just know, if there was a case on my floor involving an islamic individual, and I could safely refuse the pt. or switch out, I would...if I couldn't, I'd have a hard time with it personally. That's just me. I'm sure a jewish nurse might have a problem treating a self-proclaimed nazi as well...are we going to turn her into the BON as well ?? (This actually has happened at work on my shift before..Jewish gal..sweet as pie, pt. big ole' swastika tattoo).
  7. by   PMFB-RN
    Quote from HappyNurse82
    Wanted to add: I'm not saying her actions were right, but I'm not conviced they were wrong either. At least that's my take.
    *** I understand. I have presented the situation honestly. However you only have my side of it. But this is just a discussion. Managment will hear both sides and decide.
    My duty as I see it is this:
    1. Ensure that the patient is cared for by qualified staff that meets the standard of care (at least).
    2. Handel the situation until Monday if I can and so far I don't feel I am having any trouble handeling it.
    3. Report it honestly to nursing managment and the state BON.

    WHat nursing managment and the state board of nursing decide to do is up to them.
  8. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from HappyNurse82
    Alright, I have read through every post on this topic, and actually came back to Allnurses.com to post a reply.

    I have a very different perspective of this situation. I recently got out of the Army after 2 tours in Iraq (a year long each) and a short stint in Afgan.

    As repulsive as a lot of you may feel her actions were...I can understand and completely relate to this young girl.

    Being muslim means you are of islamic faith, you can't be Catholic and muslim..I believe I saw that posted and wanted to clarify, you can be a Catholic Arab, but not a Muslim Catholic. You can be a hispanic and be Muslim..be white and muslim..be black and muslim..etc etc. A lot of Islamic people are very peaceful people, who find the recent terrorists attacks repulsive to say the least....but let's face it here: that's not the majority. To say otherwise is probably the stupidest..yes stupidest thing I've ever heard. It's not just about 9/11 or the U.S. for that matter that has seen the horrific attacks by the Muslim community.

    I find it hard in Malls, resturants and other public places to treat obvious Muslims (you can tell which are which after you've spent as long as I have with these people) with some amount of respect. Call me whatever you like, I don't care. Surely, other generations of veterans also have the same issues with different demographics of people. These people have claimed Jihad (holy war) against the U.S., or do nurses on allnurses.com not watch CNN, FoxNews, CBS, ABC ???? The facts are undeniable, Muslims on the whole do harbor terrorists, and contribute to terrorists organizations.

    I'm not insulting anybody--even if it appears that way, hear me out, though, I promise I'm making a point.

    Having seen and met different Muslims/Islamics I've came to the conclusion that each is different, and deserves a chance to be heard. There are Christians that I think should be shot point blank in the head...same with Muslims, but it's hard for me to do so, honestly. If I was a young sheltered girl from a small hick-town, which it sounds like that's where she's from, I could only imagine that this would be the reaction. Of the many years of military nursing I've done, our report usually does include pertiant information, especially when religious beliefs could come into play where tx's are concerned. Muslims do have particular needs (religiously)...many of which are unknown because of the sect's the muslims have seperated themselves into. In this case, my report to her would have included the fact that she was caring for a Muslim. I don't think it's racism, because Islam is a faith, not a race. Perhaps how she reacted was inappropriate, but, that'd be a different letter to the DON/BON wouldn't you think ??

    Firing her isn't going to solve jack. All that's going to come of that is fueling her rage furthermore. She should've perhaps taken the conversation elsewhere, I think. But then again...the letter you addressed would be different wouldn't it ?

    I guess, my point is, I'm not sure that I will ever treat a muslim patient. I've been shot at by those *bleeps* as has my husband-several times. Those people and their actions have put my life on the line, taken me away from my child, my husband, put the lives of Americans in Jepordy and killed so many.......how does one forget that ? How are we supposed to turn the blind eye to that ? You can't. We can pick and choose wether or not to help with circ's, hang blood, assist with Abortions...but we can't decide personally that we won't help a person of a demographic who has publically cited that we-Americans-are the enemy ?? Seems a bit odd, doesn't it ?

    In addition to that, remember, she doesn't know how to react to something that she has been taught it is bad. Nursing instructors can tell you till they are blue in the face that you are going to do this that and the other thing, but any experienced nurse will tell you-it's different to actually do it. So this was her flop, her one mistake...she should be reprimanded, but not fired. Being a nurse is a job-doesn't make you God, the ever forgiving, ever understanding, ever perfect individual we all wish we were.

    Before you label me as a bigot/racist whatever the He!! else...my opinions are my opinions, I have them for a reason, you can either agree or disagree, but just because your thoughts aren't mine, doesn't make me wrong.
    Actually, your opinions DO make you wrong. They aren't just differing opinions. They are wrong.

    I DO watch the news, and those on this site can tell you that I have been and remain one of the biggest supporters for the need to go into Iraq.

    If you were on active duty, you swore an oath to uphold the Constitution and that Constitution has this nagging little principle in it that says we are bound by a kindred not vested in religion.

    An America that can declare itself intolerant of any religion puts all religions at risks. 9/11 was not about faith, but about the faithless actions of those that carried out that dastardly deed.

    I find myself comforted in knowing beyond a doubt that not just MY God was appalled by their actions, but THEIR God as well. How do I know this? Because the very same Allah of Muhammad is the God of Abraham that I respect and worship.

    I find your statement that muslims on the whole harbor terrorists to be factually incorrect and ignorant. Many American muslims (and indeed, worldwide) are just as horrified at 9/11 as you are. In addition, I lived among muslims in Turkey for a year while on active duty and found them to be fierce and respectable allies.

    The majority of muslims are peaceful people. While you might contend that is the 'stupidest' thing you've ever heard, I contend THAT belief completely explains your viewpoint. You've based your core beliefs on this issue upon hyperbole, and the disconnect from reality created by such misplaced beliefs is readily apparent.

    I'm not attacking you, but your opinion is indefensible and stands in stark contrast to the Constitutional principles you swore to uphold. We are a great nation BECAUSE we repudiate such positions.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  9. by   PMFB-RN
    I guess (and you'll probably be the ONLY one who gets this) to me, it's like having a soldier FTR for COB formation and recomending court martial, whereas a 4856 or even Company level AR-15 would be more appropriate. A lot of my 91WM6 soldiers, who are also now civillians...really do share my thoughts and feelings, and probably, in some distinct way-you get what I'm saying-even if you find her find her actions unreputable.
    I do understand the course of action being taken, but...it's hard, I guess, like I said, I understand the problem..just not the POA (plan of action).

    *** I get you but I don't agree with you.

    I just know, if there was a case on my floor involving an islamic individual, and I could safely refuse the pt. or switch out, I would...if I couldn't, I'd have a hard time with it personally. That's just me. I'm sure a jewish nurse might have a problem treating a self-proclaimed nazi as well...are we going to turn her into the BON as well ?? (This actually has happened at work on my shift before..Jewish gal..sweet as pie, pt. big ole' swastika tattoo).

    *** I think your analogy is all wrong. In my view a better one would be a nurse with a big ole' swastika tattoo refusing to care for a jewish patient.
  10. by   HappyNurse82
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    Actually, your opinions DO make you wrong. They aren't just differing opinions. They are wrong.

    I DO watch the news, and those on this site can tell you that I have been and remain one of the biggest supporters for the need to go into Iraq.

    If you were on active duty, you swore an oath to uphold the Constitution and that Constitution has this nagging little principle in it that says we are bound by a kindred not vested in religion.

    An America that can declare itself intolerant of any religion puts all religions at risks. 9/11 was not about faith, but about the faithless actions of those that carried out that dastardly deed.

    I find myself comforted in knowing beyond a doubt that not just MY God was appalled by their actions, but THEIR God as well. How do I know this? Because the very same Allah of Muhammad is the God of Abraham that I respect and worship.

    I find your statement that muslims on the whole harbor terrorists to be factually incorrect and ignorant. Many American muslims (and indeed, worldwide) are just as horrified at 9/11 as you are. In addition, I lived among muslims in Turkey for a year while on active duty and found them to be fierce and respectable allies.

    The majority of muslims are peaceful people. While you might contend that is the 'stupidest' thing you've ever heard, I contend THAT belief completely explains your viewpoint. You've based your core beliefs on this issue upon hyperbole, and the disconnect from reality created by such misplaced beliefs is readily apparent.

    I'm not attacking you, but your opinion is indefensible and stands in stark contrast to the Constitutional principles you swore to uphold. We are a great nation BECAUSE we repudiate such positions.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.

    Well darlin'...when somebody shows up at your door telling your husband/wife won't ever walk again because of a war...a war being fought against a group of Muslims..your opinion on my thoughts might change..until then, don't stand in judgement of me.
  11. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from HappyNurse82
    Well darlin'...when somebody shows up at your door telling your husband/wife won't ever walk again because of a war...a war being fought against a group of Muslims..your opinion on my thoughts might change..until then, don't stand in judgement of me.
    The key difference between us and 'them' is that we are not intolerant of others simply because 'they' are different than us. And the we and us I refer to include a hardy number of muslims.

    My opinion wouldn't change because I'm saavy enough not to blame a whole group of people based on the actions of a few. It's a good thing Christianity isn't judged that way in this nation, or I'd be in trouble.

    At this point, we'll have to agree to disagree, because otherwise, the thread will be locked and we are off topic.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Nov 24, '06
  12. by   HappyNurse82
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    I guess (and you'll probably be the ONLY one who gets this) to me, it's like having a soldier FTR for COB formation and recomending court martial, whereas a 4856 or even Company level AR-15 would be more appropriate. A lot of my 91WM6 soldiers, who are also now civillians...really do share my thoughts and feelings, and probably, in some distinct way-you get what I'm saying-even if you find her find her actions unreputable.
    I do understand the course of action being taken, but...it's hard, I guess, like I said, I understand the problem..just not the POA (plan of action).

    *** I get you but I don't agree with you.

    I just know, if there was a case on my floor involving an islamic individual, and I could safely refuse the pt. or switch out, I would...if I couldn't, I'd have a hard time with it personally. That's just me. I'm sure a jewish nurse might have a problem treating a self-proclaimed nazi as well...are we going to turn her into the BON as well ?? (This actually has happened at work on my shift before..Jewish gal..sweet as pie, pt. big ole' swastika tattoo).

    *** I think your analogy is all wrong. In my view a better one would be a nurse with a big ole' swastika tattoo refusing to care for a jewish patient.

    That's ok...never could change my PSG mind about anything, either, LOL. I just hope the ends justify the means on this one

    As long as you feel justified, really, what else matters ? You have to do what you feel is right, and if the Admin. doesn't back you...well...at least you'll feel justified trying right ?
  13. by   elthia
    This is how I see the situation.


    They came first for the Communists,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Catholics,
    and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

    Then they came for me,
    and by that time no one was left to speak up.

    Pastor Martin Niemoller (1892-1984)
    Inscribed at the New England Holocaust Memorial in Boston.
    Last edit by elthia on Nov 24, '06 : Reason: rethought post

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