Payback time

[bluenurse]

Ok here is a theory about why nurses are so negative to each other especially their young.

It is a viscious cycle. It started with the nuns who used to teach nursing. Anyone who has had experience with a parochial school (raising hand) can testify that nuns can be really brutal. Not ALL but enough. Anyway, way back when they traumatized the new nurses so badly that when it came time for them to help train in the new nurses they essentially were like either "this is how you do it for the nurses own good" or "this is payback time" ie now I can ruin someone else like I was ruined ie take away all their starry eyed idealogical ideas/attitude.

I think it was so effective because it is often done under the guise of making someone feel like if they don't put up with the harsh discipline they are going to end up "killing" someone. Nurses are SO catty about even a slight med error. Some act like OH MY GOD you almost killed someone even if you didn't.

All nurses biggest fear is that they will hurt someone on the job. Thus a huge undertow to the vicious cycle is the fear all new nurses have about making a serious mistake. When they inevitably do make a mistake because they are human they are treated horribly and made to feel like you are a "DANGEROUS" nurse. Even though the "punishers" themselves have made maybe worse mistakes.

There is a huge shaming subculture in nursing and the only reason it perpetuates I think is because it is all under the guise of "protecting patients". But patients are not protected because downtrodden nurses are MORE likely to make mistakes.

Nurse are human and they WILL err. It is time to quit shaming them for being human.

[bluenurse]

Let me add that I worked very closely with physicians for years and I saw NUMEROUS mistakes, (some serious) and you just do not see the same sort of backstabbing happening. They seem to ignore each others mistakes or are supportive of each other. They are true professionals and they act it...if physicians were all catty backstabbers I don't think they would get the respect they do regardless of their education.

[fergus51]

I completely agree that shaming is counterproductive. i think that really depends on where you are and the attitude of management. I have worked in hospitals where there was no shaming, and in fact when a nurse made an error she was supported by her colleagues and reminded that she was only human. I don't hink there is any need to shame someone who makes a mistake, because they already feel bad enough (unless this is the sixth time they have made the same mistake).

[fergus51]

I should add, I have known a couple of CATTY docs!!!! supportive in public, but tank eachother's careers in private for mistakes and politics.

[bluenurse]

Physicians don't "write each other up" and constantly run to management with petty little problems like "she looked at me meanly".........the type of things nurses so often do.

[Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN]

Originally posted by fergus51

I should add, I have known a couple of CATTY docs!!!! supportive in public, but tank eachother's careers in private for mistakes and politics.

Most interesting examples of this i've seen are when one dr.'s mother is in the hospital and another dr. or two are her physicians. That's when it gets personal for them, there fore "all's fair" is their mentality.

[Agnus]

Blue nurse, you make a pretty blanket statement. I can see some of your point and it has validity to a point. I believe you have oversimplified and made a blanket case which never holds up. JMHO

[bluenurse]

Well, you have a pretty blanket criticism of my post. They never hold up either.

[Gldngrl]

I think there's a lot more to it than physician's simply being "professional" by not reporting each other for every mistake. I believe the reasons for their non-action is because they rely upon one another financially for consults and they too, are concerned with liability issues; should they report someone and the charges are dismissed for lack of evidence and then the charging physician is charged with defamation (yes, it does happen although I believe there are some statutory protections in some states). I've seen not only nurses reporting nurses, but physicians reporting nurses as well. I agree with removing the "blame factors" and look into the errors as as opportunity to learn and to see how the system can be improved so that errors can be caught early or be prevented.

[gwenith, BSN, RN]

I was going ot direct you to Nurse Advocate's website as they have/had done so much research on this very topic and you would find the confirmation/disagreement to your arguments there but I find that it has disbanded:eek:

A sad loss to the nursing community it was one of the most valusabe resources around for those who were experiencing shaming/bullying and adverse working environments.

[canadiannurse21]

I know its terrible when some working environments harbour the concept of "telling" on people when they make a mistake--but in most cases it is necessary to ensure quality care; however, if we handled the mistake in the manner of "we are all human, just because you made a mistake, does not mean you're a bad nurse" then I think it would be better for all involved. I also think they drill not making mistakes in to our heads in training just so that we will be that much more cautious when we start working--its sort of like if we consider a minor error something serious, then we are less likely to actually make a huge errior---how dumb is that? All it does is make new grads balls of nerves:)

Good thread:)

[bluenurse]

Originally posted by canadiannurse21

I know its terrible when some working environments harbour the concept of "telling" on people when they make a mistake--but in most cases it is necessary to ensure quality care; however, if we handled the mistake in the manner of "we are all human, just because you made a mistake, does not mean you're a bad nurse" then I think it would be better for all involved. I also think they drill not making mistakes in to our heads in training just so that we will be that much more cautious when we start working--its sort of like if we consider a minor error something serious, then we are less likely to actually make a huge errior---how dumb is that? All it does is make new grads balls of nerves:)

Good thread:)

Yes, I completely agree. I don't think it prevents anything.