Nursing Shortage

Mijourney · Mar 13, 2000

Hi,

I feel that the nursing shortage is concentrated in certain areas at this time. Experienced nurses are leaving the acute care areas mostly for a greater piece of mind, perceivably better opportunities in other types of settings or work, and/or more pay. Lack of respect within and without nursing is nothing new, so I feel that this contributes only mildly to the nursing shortage. I think that the increased aging, unhealthiness, and consumer mindedness of the U.S. population has a great deal of impact on the supply and demand of nurses and other health care practitioners. Also, this country is, by and large, predominated by baby boomers who whether they are poor, not so poor, or wealthy, are fickle, demanding, and exploitative. I feel that this is what has led health care to become an industry instead of a ministry. Therefore, we're going to experience a nursing crunches until the boomers (and possibly the Gen Xers) reach the point where they run completely out of steam. FYI, I am categorized as being in the sandwich generation although some may consider me a young boomer.

[This message has been edited by Mijourney (edited March 13, 2000).]

BarbJ · Mar 20, 2000

Do any of you currently know an RN who is looking for work?. As a part of an exercise in prep for entering my Masters Program my sponsor suggested I might select a task to better the field of Nursing and pursue it to an outcome. I chose solving staffing shortages. I now work with major hospitals to try and fill empty RN positions. Six months ago the type of job I was trying to "fill" was for upper management nurses. Now I struggle to find nurses willing to take staff positions,never mind management positions. The hardest to fill are ICU, CCU, ED or OR positions. I'm not saying there is a shortage, just that the nurses are not actively seeking employment. If you know of any send them to me in Massachusetts. The new grads aren't ready to "slide" into these jobs yet, so the recruits are often a case of "Robbing Peter to Pay Paul." It wasn't/isn't my intention to empty or deplete one unit to fill another. [email protected]

nurseygrl · Mar 20, 2000

The reason that nurses from staffing agencies are usually paid such a high salary is that they give up benefits. Most agencies dont offer any type of insurance. Some of the benefits of them are different working environments and the chance to learn various different things that you wouldnt normally experience if you stayed in one facility. Being an agency nurse, I for one can say that it's very hard going into a new facility when you are met with the attitudes that you are met with quite frequently. You get your good nurses and your bad (unfortunately) anywhere. The bad ones would be bad whether they were agency or staff.

Originally posted by beano:
I'm a nurse on a med/surg floor in a local hospital. The heat from the nusing shortage is obviously hitting hard...and fast! To suppliment the regular staff, agency nuses are being brought in...some who haven't worked in the hospital setting in years. There patient care to say the least is frightening!

I've spoken with my unit manager regarding the level of care these nurses provide and was basically confronted with "beggars can't be choosers." I've tried giving these nurses the "easier" patients and smaller patient loads, but it doesn't seem fair that someone who is bring home a killer paycheck should get away with doing less work.

Any sugesstions for dealing with this delema would be greatly appreciated, or any personal experiences with agency nurses. Does anyone know where all the nurses are going? Is there some miracle nursing jobs out there that I'm not aware of?

nursedude · Mar 27, 2000

See my posting : "Nursing is Pathetic" under "Would you recomend nursing as a career?"

It might explain the "why" of the nursing shortage...MANY postings there from MANY nurses...

beano · Mar 28, 2000

Is any one else worried about how pathetic staffing will be when people start taking their (well deserved) summer vacations?

pickledpepperRN · Mar 31, 2000

Originally posted by Mijourney:
Hi,

I feel that the nursing shortage is concentrated in certain areas at this time. Experienced nurses are leaving the acute care areas mostly for a greater piece of mind, perceivably better opportunities in other types of settings or work, and/or more pay. Lack of respect within and without nursing is nothing new, so I feel that this contributes only mildly to the nursing shortage. I think that the increased aging, unhealthiness, and consumer mindedness of the U.S. population has a great deal of impact on the supply and demand of nurses and other health care practitioners. Also, this country is, by and large, predominated by baby boomers who whether they are poor, not so poor, or wealthy, are fickle, demanding, and exploitative. I feel that this is what has led health care to become an industry instead of a ministry. Therefore, we're going to experience a nursing crunches until the boomers (and possibly the Gen Xers) reach the point where they run completely out of steam. FYI, I am categorized as being in the sandwich generation although some may consider me a young boomer.

[This message has been edited by Mijourney (edited March 13, 2000).]

Mijourney:

Please help me. How will it help the nursing shortage for "boomers" & "Gen Xers run out of steam? Without most of our nurses all who NEED nursing care will just suffer and die! I hope you don't think NURSES are the ones who made health care an industry.That was done by people who DO NOT care for patients.

I am a so called "boomer. I've been an RN for 16 years, an LVN for 15 years before that, and a CNA before that.Can anyone think that those like me who have worked at the bedside our entire adult lives caused the shortage? Did I misunderstand your post? Is it those who chose peace of mind? Do you want to be cared for by a nurse who is behind on her meds, hears multiple call lights, has MDs and family asking questions, has not eaten in 12 hours, has a full bladder, and couldn't sleep worrying about what he or she missed on the previous shift?

I now work at a hospital where nursing work is respected, we are treated as people, our opinion is listened to, and our doctors are polite, kind people. Sound like heaven? Well almost. The pay is slightly less than most and benefits are poor. I willingly give up higher pay to see most of my patients recover a reasonable quality of life, and all (staff and patient) be treated with dignity.

BUT... Is it fair to nurses to treat us like many HMO and hospital managers do? What is the purpose of a hospital?

NURSING CARE nothing else! Can anyone name anything else that cannot be obtained in an outpatient setting or a hotel?

Are we worth a living wage for the education we need, the moral ethical, and legal responsibility we have, and the hard work we do? Do we deserve to have an uninterrupted meal? Do we deserve to urinate more than once in a 12 hour shift? Should we be able to go home on time? Is it materialistic to want our employer to pay for required classes and certifications instead of charging us? etc. etc. etc.

Here in California managed care prevailed, with licensed nurses replaced by people with as little as 8 hour training who never chose patient car (they just didn't want to be unemployed.) Now we have the second lowest ratio of RNs to 1000 people in the USA.

The managed care industry created the shortage they complain about.

I truly believe that we will have plenty working nurses if fair pay is combined with decent working conditions like I now enjoy (on most shifts).

Now I'll climb off my box so I can go to sleep (the alarm rings at 0500.)

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[This message has been edited by spacenurse (edited March 31, 2000).]

pickledpepperRN · Mar 31, 2000

Originally posted by Margy:
Hi everyone... I believe the 'shortage' is orchestrated by the hospitals. Well, thats so in Australia. Hospitals now wont employ people full time so most of the staff complement are casuals who can be put off at any time. Therefore nurses are leaving the profession to obtain more secure work. Hospitals think nothing of augmenting staffing with agency nurses as they are cheaper in the long run. (ie no super or holidays etc)
Margy

I agree! Can you tell us anything about Australian nurses closing bed due to lack of enough staff?

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Mijourney · Apr 2, 2000

Originally posted by spacenurse:
Mijourney:
Please help me. How will it help the nursing shortage for "boomers" & "Gen Xers run out of steam? Without most of our nurses all who NEED nursing care will just suffer and die! I hope you don't think NURSES are the ones who made health care an industry.That was done by people who DO NOT care for patients.
I am a so called "boomer. I've been an RN for 16 years, an LVN for 15 years before that, and a CNA before that.Can anyone think that those like me who have worked at the bedside our entire adult lives caused the shortage? Did I misunderstand your post? Is it those who chose peace of mind? Do you want to be cared for by a nurse who is behind on her meds, hears multiple call lights, has MDs and family asking questions, has not eaten in 12 hours, has a full bladder, and couldn't sleep worrying about what he or she missed on the previous shift?
I now work at a hospital where nursing work is respected, we are treated as people, our opinion is listened to, and our doctors are polite, kind people. Sound like heaven? Well almost. The pay is slightly less than most and benefits are poor. I willingly give up higher pay to see most of my patients recover a reasonable quality of life, and all (staff and patient) be treated with dignity.
BUT... Is it fair to nurses to treat us like many HMO and hospital managers do? What is the purpose of a hospital?
NURSING CARE nothing else! Can anyone name anything else that cannot be obtained in an outpatient setting or a hotel?
Are we worth a living wage for the education we need, the moral ethical, and legal responsibility we have, and the hard work we do? Do we deserve to have an uninterrupted meal? Do we deserve to urinate more than once in a 12 hour shift? Should we be able to go home on time? Is it materialistic to want our employer to pay for required classes and certifications instead of charging us? etc. etc. etc.
Here in California managed care prevailed, with licensed nurses replaced by people with as little as 8 hour training who never chose patient car (they just didn't want to be unemployed.) Now we have the second lowest ratio of RNs to 1000 people in the USA.
The managed care industry created the shortage they complain about.
I truly believe that we will have plenty working nurses if fair pay is combined with decent working conditions like I now enjoy (on most shifts).
Now I'll climb off my box so I can go to sleep (the alarm rings at 0500.)

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Hi spacenurse,

Thanks for your observations. As a fellow boomer, I apologize for my generalizations. I am expressing frustration for what I believe to be a decline in the very morals and ethics you refer to.

You're right, I can't blame any one generation for all the problems being experienced in health care. I pointed out the aging of the population has an impact as well as the demands of the younger generations. I don't think that we can deny that those of us that are boomers and gen-xers sometimes to frequently approach our priorities and commitments differently than our parents did. Before my current position, I had mostly been accustomed to working with the elderly. They are no angels by any means, but they seemed, overall, to be more humbled and appreciative when you did something for them. Representatives from the younger generation, at least those I've dealt with, seem to stop at nothing until they've got you giving them the kitchen sink. In addition, they seem to demonstrate inadequate critical thinking skills which adversely affects their quality of life. I also feel that the level of exploitation has been high in health care. A great deal of health care, more than not, is for profit. Much of this, to my knowledge, occurred in the last 2-3 decades which is the reason for my reference to boomers and xers. I am glad that we have nurses like you that are really serving and treating people as you would want to be treated. I see less and less of that going on around me at every level and in every setting. I do enjoy many aspects of my work, however. I have learned to approach nursing as a ministry as often as possible. That does give me a peace of mind. Does that help clarify my statements?

sandygator, BSN, RN · Apr 9, 2000

I think mcrow has the right answer.

I believe there are nurses who would fill lines if administration would make lines available!

But....if once upon a shift-from-hell 5 nurses were enough to keep disaster from happening (which is not the same as being enough to deliver quality care) then 5 nurses it is..why pay for 6 or 7?

drjtk76 · Apr 9, 2000

First of all, I do believe that there is a shortage and it's going to get worse before it get's better. I believe it's partially due to hospitals themselves cutting back on personnel to save money, and also because there is a high turnover of nurses due to burnout. HMOs and top hosp execs are making the big bucks, NOT the agency nurses. I am an agency nurse. I get the same pay as my peers working in hospitals locally but have virtually no benefits. So be a little patient with the agency nurses that are there to assist. Imagine life without them.

YADA-YADA · Apr 12, 2000

AMEN to that. We have been using agency people to fill in holes at our facility, and I think they are great.

Our shift would be alot messier if she didnt show up. I dont care how much money she makes, as long as comes in and helps us out.

When Im on and charge she wont get dumped on either, not on my floor.

CANRN, MSN, RN · Apr 12, 2000

I think the nurisng shortage is a direct result of the changes that managed care has brought on. Yes, our hospitals have expected far more from the nurses than ever and it is only getting worse. The hospitals are forced to cut cost to stay afloat. Insurance companies and Medicare will only pay if the DRG is appropriate and only for a certain length of time. Now, think about it! Someone sits behing a desk in wing tipped shoes, with their trusty little stamper, making decisions on whether or not a patient QUALIFIES for inpatient stay. Everyone is afftected, even the doctors.

We do put not just our license, but our entire futures on the line every single time we punch that time clock. I became a nurse because I wanted to be the kind of nurse that nurtures and gives care in a respectful manner. What I found is "FLY BY NURSING"!!! Only enough time to fly in, do a task and fly out. Many times I barely had time to even look at my patient to see thier face! The frustration I felt was more than I could handle. Nurses are leaving the field in groves, and it is no wonder. We can't continue to be expected to work like dogs forever. Heck, my dog gets better treatment, so that is a bad analogy!

I don't know where the answer lies, but I do know, I could not tolerate what I saw any longer. I've turned my INTERVENTION knowledge into PREVENTION.

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