Nursing, No Longer A White Woman's Job?

[Gomer]

Discussion overheard at lunch today: ER RN (white female) "discussing" her opinion with Respiratory Therapist (white, male) and EMT (black, male) that within 10-years white women will no longer be in the majority as far as bedside nursing goes. Her argument was that women have more opportunities to go into other professions than when she was young (guessing she's in her late 50's) and that since we are importing nurses from "third-world countries" no white woman will be a bedside RN in the future. EMT agreed and said that it's not just white women, that he wouldn't want his daughter or son to be a RN. The RT kept quiet and continued to eat his tuna sandwich.

So, I wonder, do any others of you feel that way? That is, that women (white, black, brown, etc) in America have more opportunities, more career choices now than ever before; and that the nursing profession will become the immigrant's first job in America?

[Fgr8Out]

Originally posted by Brownms46

"...When work conditions deteriorate and managements solution is to bring over foreign nurses and for all intents and purposes have indentured servents...."

Illegal or not...what would you call..paying a nurses way here, and then forcing them to work whatever you want them to for a period of two years or more to pay that hospital back??

And then pay them very little, so they're forced to work more than 40hrs to make a living...and or try and pay their way out of the contracts with the hospital! . And if they try to leave and go elsewhere to work and pay off the debt, ( because of how badly you're treating them)...you threaten to revoke their papers and send them back home!!! . I don't know what else to call it:confused:??

I guess you're right... geeze. I must live some sort of sheltered life, as I had no IDEA these practices occur... (yes, that's right...Fgr doesn't know "everything" and STILL occasionally has to "figure it out"). :imbar

Now I suppose I'll have to investigate my own employers practices... although we have primarily Travelers (i THINK) and don't "recruit" nurses from outside the country. Won't I have a task to perform if I find out differently...?

Thanks, Brown, for setting me straight.

[healthyone]

hi everyone...i am glad at the general feedback of the group saying pretty much the same thing...lets move on, this issue has been beaten to death. We're all nurses (or nurses to be) and we're all one.

Spoken from a Caribbina in Toronto (and there's TONS of us who work as nurses up on in here).

love ya'll, bye!

[NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN]

Dr. Anthony Santomero, President, Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia, had some poignant observations on the Greater Philadelphia region's future in a speech "Forces Shaping Philadelphia's Future" delivered at PECO Energy May 13, 2002.

(http://www.phil.frb.org/publicaffairs/speeches/santomero23.html)

....National economic trends shape Philadelphia's future

One set of forces shaping Philadelphia's future emanates from the national economy. Cyclical swings and secular trends in the national economy have an important impact on the pace and pattern of economic activity here. Over the past several decades, we have seen that impact for both good and bad.

Today, I want to discuss these broader secular trends and their implications for our community. Here, the changing composition of economic activity in the national economy over the past several decades is particularly noteworthy, as it impacts the ongoing shift in the economy of Greater Philadelphia. At both levels there has been a clear movement away from employment in the manufacturing sector and toward the service sector. In 1980, 54 percent of the people employed in the U.S. worked in the service sector. By 2000, that proportion rose to 65 percent, an increase of 11 percentage points. In Philadelphia, the proportion rose from 57 percent to 71 percent, an increase of 14 percentage points.

The shift away from manufacturing employment and toward service sector employment is a theme with which we have long been familiar. However, the last couple of decades have represented more than a shift from factory work to fast food minimum wage jobs. This has occurred to some extent, to be sure, but a more important and more fundamental trend has been the shift toward the knowledge occupations, that is, occupations typically requiring a bachelor's degree or higher education.

Knowledge occupations span a broad range of activities -- from science and education, to professional business services, to computer hardware and software design. Knowledge occupations represent a significant and growing proportion of total employment in the U.S., and particularly in metropolitan places, including Philadelphia.

...our Bank's recent study "The Industrial Evolution." In that study we compared patterns of employment and economic activity for the United States and in 14 major metropolitan areas. In the U.S., 28 percent of workers were in knowledge occupations as of 1999. The percentage exceeded that average in all but one of the 14 metropolitan places we examined. In Philadelphia, 32 percent of workers -- nearly one-third -- were in knowledge occupations. That puts Philadelphia in sixth place among the 14 cities. Only Washington, D.C. and Boston had significantly higher percentages. .... Knowledge occupations offer significantly higher compensation than other occupations. Also, knowledge workers traditionally have lower unemployment rates than other workers.

-----------------

Bedside nursing is brain challenging and physically hard work. In viewing nursing's history and that of US society's view of work in general, Nursing was traditionally "women's work". As nurses increased their scientific knowledge base and development of modern healthcare, we proved that nursing was more that just fluffing pillows, giving out pills and bedbaths and began attracting men into the profession in the mid 60's.

How many of us are the first High School and College graduates in our families??? Their wasn't as much encouragement in the mid 50's for a streetwalkers son or laborer's daughter to consider Flying Jets or being a CEO of corporation like their is today. People can dream and fulfill that dream today. So it's natural that women can choose besides nursing and teaching today and that persons of color can become doctors and nurses today.

From Health Resources and Services Administration Bureau of Health Profession: Graduate Medical Education and Public Policy: A Primer (ftp://ftp.hrsa.gov/bhpr/nationalcenter/GMEprimer.pdf)

"Once considered largely a mans profession, the practice of medicine by women has risen dramatically in the past quarter century. In 1970, women represented just 8 percent of all physicians; by 2010, they are to comprise close to 30 percent of the total physician population (COGME, 5thReport). In earlier years, women facing admission to medical school and residency training were thwarted by several barriers, including the expectation that they wouldenter a limited number of fields (mainly primary care) and that a certain proportion continued to restrict admissions of African Americans as late as the mid-1960s.)(AAMC, 2000) Consequently, African American, NativeAmerican and Hispanic medical school graduates comprise just six percent of all U.S. practicing physicians (AAMC,2000)."

The West Philadelphia hospital I started at in 1977 was like working at the UN. They had nurses from all over the world as well as laboratory staff because traditional white medical staff had retired and the neighborhood had become an area of mixed culture. A progressive Nursing Administration pushed the educational loan program offered by the hospital to ALL employees so by the time I left 11 years later, many persons had become nurses that were former dietary or housekeeping staff, aides or orderlies and kept the institution alive. This type of educational push is changing many an institution as many learned that through hard work one can reach their goal. That is why nursing today is red, white, green, brown and purple.

[SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN]

that was well researched & so eloquently said....great job!!!!

[NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN]

:blushkiss

Stumbled across speech while preusing PA Convention Center wesite and checking out links so i'll be able to direct people during ANA convention. BHPR wesite visited months ago when Nursing statistics came out. I can find info I've seen once, just like I can find a homecare pts house 2 years after I last visited without map, BUT can't always remember names of staff I work with everyday...go figure!

[Brownms46]

Originally posted by Fgr8Out

I guess you're right... geeze. I must live some sort of sheltered life, as I had no IDEA these practices occur... (

Thanks, Brown, for setting me straight.

Hi Fgr8out..:)

You're very welcome, but one can be expected to know everything. This is something that I have withnessed myself, or I wouldn't have known about it. There is one nurse who was able to get out of this servitude, but not sure how she did it. She left here, and most people working with her didn't even know she was going. She went to Houston to visit her husband, as he was there and she was here. They were only able to see each other every other week...because of the way she was scheduled to work. One week she went to see him, and then the next week she was gone! I have to think that a hospital in Houston must have bought out her contract. But there is another one stuck here, and has been begging them to let her go, but they won't!

She works fulltime at the contract hospital, and PT at another hospital. The contract hospital has threaten to make her terminate from the PT hospital..as they wanted her to pick up more time in their hospital...

[KBaldwinLVN]

Originally posted by Jenny P

Maybe some of the nay-sayers are not white women and that may be why they are offended--

Thank you.

Jenny P

I don't get it....Help me to understand what you are saying here Jenny P.

[KBaldwinLVN]

originally posted by skm-nursiepooh

i'm saddened to see some people are still "sick" to death about any topic that has any hint of "race" to it...just because you've never had to face racism doesn't means that it doesn't exist...sadly, it does...the only way to work this situation out is to talk about it...& for some people...it's coming to this bbs & wanting to discuss this amongst friends & acquaintances within & out of this country. why must those few individuals want to just sweep that topic under the table just because they've themselves have no affiliations or weren't directly affected by it. those comments such as "alright already" or "this topic again" or "jesus christ...", is so demeaning, disrespectful, insensitive, & dismissive at the least to those who truly need to vent about it. one could be a little bit more conservative, selective, & or professional with those types of statements...like some others posters have said, if this isn't a topic to your liking or if you're "tired" of it already, then don't participate in it if you've don't have anything constructive to say...but leave those who do want to civilly talk about it alone . where would we all be if we nurses didn't have these bbs to go to in order to vent about how the public, suits, docs, & other healthcare professionals treat & perceive us (on the job & off)!!!

this thread topic was neither racist nor was it inflammatory...i just saw it for what it was...gomer asking for our opinions about a conversation that he'd overheard at work...that's all...nothing more...nothing less...it wasn't his intention to be inflammatory at all.

with that said...i'll ask: who's really being overly sensitive about "race" now?

i totally agree. i am lead to believe posters moderators become frightened when race is the topic, people openly disagree, and it becomes uncomfortable. i believe this then leads to statements like "enough already" or "i'm tired of....", for lack of willing to deal with it. as posters, we all are aware that we can go to another bb that is better suited for our individual tastes. i'm not implying those who are uncomfortable are racist (lord no!).... just saying let's talk about what's the root of the uncomfortable feelings when we mention the words "race and nursing" together. maybe we can get to a point when it's not so bad to appreciate, respect and honor basic differences in opinions and move on to something more complex like a race discussion.

then again, nurses are known to be pushy, rigid people who eat their young. i hope that rumor isn't true.

[KBaldwinLVN]

originally posted by lasvegasrn

i am not offended by this thread. i am weary that in this day and age medical professionals still see things in black and white. i am not offended by anything related to race - i've lived it all my life, i've been affected by it all my life. but it does not rule my life or my profession.

....then why the "amen" after quoting rusty's post of being "tired" of hearing the contents of this type of thread? i'm sorry (in advance) if this sounds like i'm calling you out, i just don't understand your back-and-forth statements.

[KBaldwinLVN]

Originally posted by traumaRUs

I too gotta agree that this thread doesn't serve any useful purpose. Please, moderators...close it. Thanks.

No useful purpose?

...Yeah, though the responses have been more than a few...let's sweep the thread under the rug and close it. That way it's outta-sight and outta-mind and nobody will learn from other opinions and through dialogue. While we're at it, none of the other threads are very useful, so the moderator's should close the whole BB site down. I mean, answering a poll on new grads in the ER is not very purposeful, (that is...In my opinion)....

Yes...Be gone with what (I believe) does not serve any useful purpose.

(Yes...a bit sarcastic, but not without respect. Its merely my opinion to your opinion.)

[Rustyhammer]

Originally posted by KBaldwinLVN

No useful purpose?

...Yeah, though the responses have been more than a few...let's sweep the thread under the rug and close it. That way it's outta-sight and outta-mind and nobody will learn from other opinions and through dialogue. While we're at it, none of the other threads are very useful, so the moderator's should close the whole BB site down. I mean, answering a poll on new grads in the ER is not very purposeful, (that is...In my opinion)....

Yes...Be gone with what (I believe) does not serve any useful purpose.

(Yes...a bit sarcastic, but not without respect. Its merely my opinion to your opinion.)

Perhaps I can enlighten you kbaldwinLVN!

When you are in the minority and you see a post with the words "white women" or "racism" or "male nurse" or a simular type of phrase then it appears as though there is some type of separation going on.

This BB is for "ALLNURSES".

It kind of gets some folks worked up to hear those type of phrases when they have experienced discrimination in the past and now some of our brothers and sisters in the nursing profession are still not past that.

If we cannot get over it and see and treat OURSELVES with solidarity then how can we hope to have others see us as a group whom they may want to join.

KbaldwinLVN,

We have enough nursing issues without having to bring race and sex into the picture.

I feel topics like this really do serve "no useful purpose".

Off of the soapbox now.

Love and Peace,

-Russell

[SmilingBluEyes]

All that from an HISPANIC (partly) RN....I agree w/youRusty. Ty for that! :-)