Nursing, No Longer A White Woman's Job? - page 5

Discussion overheard at lunch today: ER RN (white female) "discussing" her opinion with Respiratory Therapist (white, male) and EMT (black, male) that within 10-years white women will no longer be... Read More

  1. by   live4today
    Racism does exist...always has existed...always will, just like poverty exist...always has...always will. Liars, thieves, adulterers, rich people, people with power over others, people without a home, people without food, people always looking for a handout when they could support themselves (or take advantage of opportunities to get out of whatever rut they may be in), people of MANY colors, classes, educational levels, and so forth...THESE will ALWAYS exist.

    It is NOT a question of whether these matters that affect LIFE exist, the question is "How can WE...as a human race of so many nationalities, ethnic cultures, skin colors, etc., become a more unified body of people on Planet Earth?"

    Is Earth not roomy enough for us all that we don't have to feel as if we must step on one another's character just to hold a heartfelt conversation about how racism...or whatever else...affects one person's life?

    Perhaps the direction this thread SHOULD go is for each person who has personally experienced prejudice within their work environment as a healthcare professional to express their own personal heartfelt emotions in regard to what affected THEM...cutting out the arguments as to whether prejudice exist or not...we know that it does...but to what extent does it impact your own personal life as a nurse, a CNA, etc.?

    EXAMPLE: Jayna shared a personal experience of her own that had a DIRECT impact on her life.

    If we aren't sharing our own personal experience with prejudice in the workforce against us, then all we are doing is sharing 'someone else's story with racism'...and not our own personal venture with it.

    Just trying to narrow things down a little so we can STILL learn about racism in the workforce among healthcare workers WITHOUT someone feeling attacked. Perhaps those viewing this particular thread who wish to post would post their own personal story(ies) with prejudice/racism if they knew they wouldn't be attacked for sharing something very personal that happened to them on their job. Many people do NOT like conflict...therefore avoiding situations that would bring them into it. They have a right to share, so if this thread tones down to a nonattack setting, making it more nurse-friendly and SAFE, perhaps more nurses would share. Everyone's experience has meaning to them...regardless of where they come from, who they are, or what their race may or may not be.

    RESPECT...JUST A LITTLE RESPECT...says Aretha Franklin! :kiss
    Last edit by live4today on Jun 22, '02
  2. by   LasVegasRN
    Originally posted by cheerfuldoer
    Many people do NOT like conflict...therefore avoiding situations that would bring them into it. They have a right to share, so if this thread tones down to a nonattack setting, making it more nurse-friendly and SAFE, perhaps more nurses would share. Everyone's experience has meaning to them...regardless of where they come from, who they are, or what their race may or may not be.
    RESPECT...JUST A LITTLE RESPECT...says Aretha Franklin! :kiss
    Well said!
  3. by   micro
    discrimation and prejudice exists in all forms.
    it is so sad and so yet easy to not discuss or be flippant over.........
    differences in people, different in cultures, different socioeconomic, different .............
    but we are so the same if people would just be who they are instead of throwing up walls.........
    i have dealt with discrimation due to ............. Bothered me for far too many years, but finally I truly don't give a d.......in regards to myself that is..
    Racism does exist, sad to say as well as much other darkness out there........thank goodness it has started to change
    Love to all here,
    btw, cool pics all
    nice to meetcha!
    Last edit by micro on Jun 23, '02
  4. by   Fgr8Out
    Originally posted by traumaRUs
    I too gotta agree that this thread doesn't serve any useful purpose. Please, moderators...close it. Thanks.
    I believe if you have an issue with a post... or postee, you can click that little "report this post to moderator" link or PM the postee you have issues with and deal with it in that way, as opposed to posting comments which have nothing to do with the discussion or have nothing constructive to add. Does that mean I should just PM you? Yes... But, since you chose to post such a curt, brush-off comment addressed to ALL viewers... I believe you deserve to have your comment addressed in the same manner.

    If you don't LIKE this post... QUIT READING IT. You're not the deciding factor on what does and does not constitute discussion (thank goodness).
    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

    Now, then... I've never really thought about the face of nursing changing colors... perhaps because I entered when I was 30, in the mid-90's. Perhaps I'm used to the diversity. I hope it's because I truly am "color blind"

    I don't have "issues" with "foreign" nurses entering the fold. We're all simply NURSES. I'm just thrilled to have new blood being transfused into a very anemic Profession... and since blood has only ONE color (as previously mentioned by an apparently wonderful Nurse), this new infusion should certainly work towards bringing strength to us all.

    Gomer? It had to be difficult to hear the conversation you did, and not jump into it, offering your criticism of such mental midget thinking by the RN and RT who apparently felt no shame in their line of reasoning. You took the high road and didn't engage in conversation with 2 people who so obviously have closed minds and apparently feel threatened by others who might just possibly present a challenge. Kudos to you.
  5. by   mopsi
    I have to agree too....The race thing is getting real tired along with the age thing...Now importing foreign nurses to take jobs is another issue...When work conditions deteriorate and managements solution is to bring over foreign nurses and for all intents and purposes have indentured servents....This becomes an issue to me...But to continue to raise emotions on the race/color issue is just uncalled for...I believe it is time for NURSES to stand together and reap some power from UNITY....The obervations and opinions overheard do have some merit as nursing becomes a more impossible profession...however the solution does not lie in the destruction of the mainframe of standards of practice. Each and everyone one of us needs to start our own positve PR and image campain..Treat each other with respect..Challenge those who demean the Title..NURSE..and act with the assurance of a skilled caring professional even in places where we think no one is hearing.like lunchrooms).anyone have any ideas on how to start a National Union with retirement, Low priced good healthcare and fair wage scales????This seems more productive to me than tring to keep race issues as a block for advancement of all NURSES..
    Just a little soundoff from OHIO..
  6. by   Fgr8Out
    "...When work conditions deteriorate and managements solution is to bring over foreign nurses and for all intents and purposes have indentured servents...."
    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

    huh?!?!?!?

    i believe that's illegal...
  7. by   Brownms46
    "...When work conditions deteriorate and managements solution is to bring over foreign nurses and for all intents and purposes have indentured servents...."


    Illegal or not...what would you call..paying a nurses way here, and then forcing them to work whatever you want them to for a period of two years or more to pay that hospital back??

    And then pay them very little, so they're forced to work more than 40hrs to make a living...and or try and pay their way out of the contracts with the hospital! . And if they try to leave and go elsewhere to work and pay off the debt, ( because of how badly you're treating them)...you threaten to revoke their papers and send them back home!!! . I don't know what else to call it??
  8. by   Netty
    I personally think it is great to have such a diversified group of people in Nursing.. It means we will always have someone who besides providing care, can explain procedures and thereby alleviate the patients anxiety and help make their needs known. And there will always be someone close by who can translate!!!!
  9. by   Fgr8Out
    Originally posted by Brownms46
    "...When work conditions deteriorate and managements solution is to bring over foreign nurses and for all intents and purposes have indentured servents...."


    Illegal or not...what would you call..paying a nurses way here, and then forcing them to work whatever you want them to for a period of two years or more to pay that hospital back??

    And then pay them very little, so they're forced to work more than 40hrs to make a living...and or try and pay their way out of the contracts with the hospital! . And if they try to leave and go elsewhere to work and pay off the debt, ( because of how badly you're treating them)...you threaten to revoke their papers and send them back home!!! . I don't know what else to call it??
    I guess you're right... geeze. I must live some sort of sheltered life, as I had no IDEA these practices occur... (yes, that's right...Fgr doesn't know "everything" and STILL occasionally has to "figure it out"). :imbar

    Now I suppose I'll have to investigate my own employers practices... although we have primarily Travelers (i THINK) and don't "recruit" nurses from outside the country. Won't I have a task to perform if I find out differently...?

    Thanks, Brown, for setting me straight.
  10. by   healthyone
    hi everyone...i am glad at the general feedback of the group saying pretty much the same thing...lets move on, this issue has been beaten to death. We're all nurses (or nurses to be) and we're all one.

    Spoken from a Caribbina in Toronto (and there's TONS of us who work as nurses up on in here).

    love ya'll, bye!
  11. by   NRSKarenRN
    Dr. Anthony Santomero, President, Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia, had some poignant observations on the Greater Philadelphia region's future in a speech "Forces Shaping Philadelphia's Future" delivered at PECO Energy May 13, 2002.
    (http://www.phil.frb.org/publicaffair...ntomero23.html)

    ....National economic trends shape Philadelphia's future
    One set of forces shaping Philadelphia's future emanates from the national economy. Cyclical swings and secular trends in the national economy have an important impact on the pace and pattern of economic activity here. Over the past several decades, we have seen that impact for both good and bad.

    Today, I want to discuss these broader secular trends and their implications for our community. Here, the changing composition of economic activity in the national economy over the past several decades is particularly noteworthy, as it impacts the ongoing shift in the economy of Greater Philadelphia. At both levels there has been a clear movement away from employment in the manufacturing sector and toward the service sector. In 1980, 54 percent of the people employed in the U.S. worked in the service sector. By 2000, that proportion rose to 65 percent, an increase of 11 percentage points. In Philadelphia, the proportion rose from 57 percent to 71 percent, an increase of 14 percentage points.

    The shift away from manufacturing employment and toward service sector employment is a theme with which we have long been familiar. However, the last couple of decades have represented more than a shift from factory work to fast food minimum wage jobs. This has occurred to some extent, to be sure, but a more important and more fundamental trend has been the shift toward the knowledge occupations, that is, occupations typically requiring a bachelor's degree or higher education.

    Knowledge occupations span a broad range of activities -- from science and education, to professional business services, to computer hardware and software design. Knowledge occupations represent a significant and growing proportion of total employment in the U.S., and particularly in metropolitan places, including Philadelphia.

    ...our Bank's recent study "The Industrial Evolution." In that study we compared patterns of employment and economic activity for the United States and in 14 major metropolitan areas. In the U.S., 28 percent of workers were in knowledge occupations as of 1999. The percentage exceeded that average in all but one of the 14 metropolitan places we examined. In Philadelphia, 32 percent of workers -- nearly one-third -- were in knowledge occupations. That puts Philadelphia in sixth place among the 14 cities. Only Washington, D.C. and Boston had significantly higher percentages. .... Knowledge occupations offer significantly higher compensation than other occupations. Also, knowledge workers traditionally have lower unemployment rates than other workers.

    -----------------

    Bedside nursing is brain challenging and physically hard work. In viewing nursing's history and that of US society's view of work in general, Nursing was traditionally "women's work". As nurses increased their scientific knowledge base and development of modern healthcare, we proved that nursing was more that just fluffing pillows, giving out pills and bedbaths and began attracting men into the profession in the mid 60's.

    How many of us are the first High School and College graduates in our families??? Their wasn't as much encouragement in the mid 50's for a streetwalkers son or laborer's daughter to consider Flying Jets or being a CEO of corporation like their is today. People can dream and fulfill that dream today. So it's natural that women can choose besides nursing and teaching today and that persons of color can become doctors and nurses today.

    From Health Resources and Services Administration Bureau of Health Profession: Graduate Medical Education and Public Policy: A Primer (ftp://ftp.hrsa.gov/bhpr/nationalcenter/GMEprimer.pdf)

    "Once considered largely a mans profession, the practice of medicine by women has risen dramatically in the past quarter century. In 1970, women represented just 8 percent of all physicians; by 2010, they are to comprise close to 30 percent of the total physician population (COGME, 5thReport). In earlier years, women facing admission to medical school and residency training were thwarted by several barriers, including the expectation that they wouldenter a limited number of fields (mainly primary care) and that a certain proportion continued to restrict admissions of African Americans as late as the mid-1960s.)(AAMC, 2000) Consequently, African American, NativeAmerican and Hispanic medical school graduates comprise just six percent of all U.S. practicing physicians (AAMC,2000)."

    The West Philadelphia hospital I started at in 1977 was like working at the UN. They had nurses from all over the world as well as laboratory staff because traditional white medical staff had retired and the neighborhood had become an area of mixed culture. A progressive Nursing Administration pushed the educational loan program offered by the hospital to ALL employees so by the time I left 11 years later, many persons had become nurses that were former dietary or housekeeping staff, aides or orderlies and kept the institution alive. This type of educational push is changing many an institution as many learned that through hard work one can reach their goal. That is why nursing today is red, white, green, brown and purple.
  12. by   SKM-NURSIEPOOH
    that was well researched & so eloquently said....great job!!!!
  13. by   NRSKarenRN
    :blushkiss

    Stumbled across speech while preusing PA Convention Center wesite and checking out links so i'll be able to direct people during ANA convention. BHPR wesite visited months ago when Nursing statistics came out. I can find info I've seen once, just like I can find a homecare pts house 2 years after I last visited without map, BUT can't always remember names of staff I work with everyday...go figure!

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