Never understood nursing

Nurses General Nursing

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I know this is my first post on your forum, and I am a guest here. But I hopefully can get some answers to a problem that has seemed to plague me since I started practicing in medicine. I am hoping that you will be honest enough to tell me why things have gotten to where they are. And by the way, my wife is an EM nurse. That is how we met.

I started in emergency medicine 10 years ago in NY. I spent 10 years prior in EMS, and also did a residency in EM for two years after graduating PA school. I have a fairly decent background. Right out of school, I worked in 4 EDs. One hospital in Brooklyn, on my first day, the charge nurse and two others came up to me and said "You are the new PA, let's get one thing straight, we have 4 year degrees, you have a 4 year degree, you are no better than us. You need labs drawn, x-rays put in, IV started, you do them yourself. It's bad enough we have to do them for the doctors, we are certainly not going to do them for you". They were called into the ED directors office the next day. They brought the union who threatened to have the whole hospital walk out if the director had anything to say to the nurses. Then at another hospital in NY, I had nurses tell me and the docs what procedure they would "allow us" to perform on our patients. They ripped up my prescriptions right in front of me and told me when they would not "allow me" to give out narcotics. In Virginia, large level 1 trauma center, they refused to do UAs on most patients. They didn't feel the test to be important. I had them tell me if my UA was so important, "are your legs broke, why can't you get it from the patient and walk it down to the lab?" They played passive aggressive for years, not giving my cardiac patients nitro or morphine for up to 2 hours consistently, answering "I heard you, put the chart in the rack and I will get to it when I get to it". Of course they refused to allow me access to the Pyxis to get the meds myself. I had them yell at me whe I wrote parameters for Cardazem for BP. They told me I was to assume ALL nurses know parameters and how dare I question their knowledge. They then told me they will question all of my orders for at least one year until I prove myself to them. That seemed to be a reoccurring theme in most ED.

I have war stories that I could go on for at least 10 pages. I have just touched the tip of the iceberg. So after almost 10 years of this and 10 emergency departments, I got to the point that I started to hate nurses in general, and thought that this is what I could expect for the rest of my career. Then of all places, I came to Las Vegas. I asked about the nurses here. I was told the same as all of my other hospitals (no one ever tells you how bad things really are as you would never take on a new position there if you knew). But to my surprise, it has been the best experience I have ever had. They are so nice, so professional. There are no power struggles. We all work together. What a difference when I get up every day to come to work.

So what gives? I have never seen a profession where so many are hateful, unprofessional, uncaring about their responsibilities (patients) and could care less about how little they are performing their jobs. This did not appear to be the minority in any of the places I had previously worked. Have I just had the bad luck to have picked 8 out of 10 of some of the worst places?

Sorry, I agree with the people who smell a troll.....

Yes, I am making this all up.

I don't understand what possible rationale I could have for this. If I wanted to do some nurse bashing this would not be the place to do it. I would go where none of you could defend yourselves. And that is not what I am looking to do. I just wanted to start some dialogue on a very touch subject, and that there is a very concentrated group of nurses in a particular area who seem to have run amuch with their profession and have given it a bad name, at least to anyone who has had the misfortune of working in those hositals. I was just giving my story, I guess for some, and I hate to use the word, validation that this goes on.

So what gives? I have never seen a profession where so many are hateful, unprofessional, uncaring about their responsibilities (patients) and could care less about how little they are performing their jobs. This did not appear to be the minority in any of the places I had previously worked. Have I just had the bad luck to have picked 8 out of 10 of some of the worst places?

This quote from your original post expresses a need to let off steam and ask why there's such craziness in some people and some workplaces. Don't have any easy answers about the craziness, just the same questions you do. As for the ranting, we all need to do that from time to time.

Having now vented, I hope you are feeling better and have come away at least a little reassured that we are not all like the nightmare nurses you described. I hope, too, that the nurses in your current workplace have helped to alter your perspective. It sounds like you've found a sense of connection with them, and it also sounds like you have been able to look at this job as the fresh start you needed.

I doubt that there's anything to be gained by trying to convince other posters of the veracity of your accounts. Some will believe you and some won't, no matter what you say.

It does seem clear that you have been through a stressful and difficult time, and, more important, that you are now very possibly on the mend.

Is there anything further we can do to help you move forward and leave the bad ol' days behind?

Specializes in PICU, Nurse Educator, Clinical Research.

OK, here's my take on the subject.

i don't think that, in my experiences, the percentages match up with those the OP cited, but I've been amazed at the childish, unprofessional way I've been treated by some nurses. Before you lambaste me, note that I said SOME- not all. I've not been treated badly by any of the MD/PA/DO staff members I've worked with. Is my experience the exception to the rule? Maybe so. But I've had many, many jobs outside of healthcare- and even when I was cleaning cat poop out of litterboxes at a pet store, I was never treated with the disrespect I've experienced by some coworkers within nursing.

Some examples:

-had a preceptor grab my hand while I was connecting some IV tubing (wasn't connected to the patient, btw) and scream, "what's your PROBLEM?? ARE YOU STUPID??" This was in front of the patient's family and half a dozen other staff members. Yes, I was connecting the tubing incorrectly. It was something I'd not done before, and I was nowhere near hooking it up to the patient.

-as a CNA, I had a nurse scream at me for not jumping up to turn off a light a millisecond after he barked at me to do it.

-after a night shift, I asked the day shift nurse if she was ready to take report. She looked at me, rolled her eyes, then TURNED HER BACK ON ME and spent 15 minutes telling another nurse about her date the night before. When I told her again (in a very neutral tone) that I needed to give her report, she snapped, "I'm BUSY, and you just have to wait!"

-I had a nurse manager follow me into the bathroom- while patients' family members were in it- to yell at me for not giving an employee her annual TB test within 15 minutes of her asking for it.

-I had coworkers on one unit completely fabricate statements I'd made, then run to tattle on me to the unit manager. When I (calmly) said I'd not made those statements, the manager told me she would always believe the other staff members who'd been there longer than me.

-I used the word 'plethora' in casual conversation with a nurse, who then told several coworkers I was uppity and thought I was better than everyone because I used 'dictionary' words. (Her words, not mine.)

We all know that negative experiences leave a longer-lasting impression than those that are positive. One nasty comment can make an otherwise pleasant day a crappy one. Did I have *only* negative experiences with my fellow nurses? Of course not! But at the time these incidents took place, they overshadowed any other positive or neutral events.

When I was still working in these environments- which were clearly toxic (they all happened at 2 facilities)- I felt that most nurses must be bitter, nasty people, and I questioned my decision to enter the profession. After being away from them for a while, and working somewhere with professional, respectful coworkers, I gained perspective.

Was it coincidence that my interactions with colleagues were more pleasant in a place where nurses were well-compensated, respected, and treated as professionals? I don't think so.

I think that my experiences- and probably those of the OP- illustrate a fundamental problem within healthcare. Nurses are, by and large, overworked, underpaid, and disrespected by patients, families, coworkers, management- pretty much everyone. My friends outside of healthcare were appalled at the paltry salary that hospital nurses are paid for such a high-stress, difficult job. Compound that with unhealthy physical conditions (never getting lunch breaks, standing for 12 hours, inadequate assistance with lifting and moving patients), and it's not surprising that some nurses are surly, nasty people.

But is that an excuse for the behavior? Not at all. Sadly, though, we all know that it doesn't take much for one toxic coworker to pollute the entire environment.

I believe the OP's accounts. I don't think the nasty, unprofessional nurses he's encountered are representative of nurses as a whole; I *do* think that they- and their ilk- contribute to burnout among other nurses, the 'nurses eating their young' phenomenon, and the lack of respect given to nurses by others.

How can this be fixed? I'm not sure- but it's going to take a shift in how we view ourselves, and how we treat each other- and everyone else- in the workplace.

To the OP, I'm glad you've found a good work environment. When you encounter one of these types of nurses again (and you will), take them aside and try to find out why they're acting the way they are. You seem articulate- speak to them with respect, and see if you can get to the root of the problem. At worst, you'll tick them off and they'll continue to be nasty and rude with you- so, nothing lost. But maybe, you'll make them reflect on their words and actions, and they'll change a bit.

Imagine what could happen if just *one* toxic coworker you've had (and I'm speaking to everyone here, not just the OP) changed their attitude and behavior a little bit?

Specializes in Public Health, DEI.

It sounds to me as if what you don't understand is the attitude and behavior of certain nurses. It really doesn't have much to do with not understanding nursing.

I have been an RN for three years, and can relate to alot of what the OP has written. I experienced some similar treatment by instructors in nursing school, degrading, demeaning, offensive behavior. In my first job out of school I experienced this in my first job on a med/surg unit by the other nurses, some of the cnas and ancillary staff. I was never rude or degrading to anyone, all I can figure is there were out to "eat their young". I worked in the position one year, then changed jobs to my current one. I am sad to say I am now working in toxic environment that was much worse than the original place. It is unionized and has had some difficulties which I am sure have added to the toxicity, however this in no way excuses the behaviors and the attacks and bullying I have had to endure. I am sorry I stayed there for the past two years, it has been a huge mistake. I thought it best to try and gut it out, but it has only gotten worse. To those who don't believe this is possible, do an online search of toxic workplaces, bullying bosses: there are numerous books and websites on the subject. The stress is horrible and real. Why would anyone want to make ups something so unpleasant is beyond me. I am currently seeking employment else where and am waiting for the word so I can give my two week notice. I only hope I can survive this experience without any more physical or pyschological damage.

Specializes in Public Health, DEI.
I have been an RN for three years, and can relate to alot of what the OP has written. I experienced some similar treatment by instructors in nursing school, degrading, demeaning, offensive behavior. In my first job out of school I experienced this in my first job on a med/surg unit by the other nurses, some of the cnas and ancillary staff. I was never rude or degrading to anyone, all I can figure is there were out to "eat their young". I worked in the position one year, then changed jobs to my current one. I am sad to say I am now working in toxic environment that was much worse than the original place. It is unionized and has had some difficulties which I am sure have added to the toxicity, however this in no way excuses the behaviors and the attacks and bullying I have had to endure. I am sorry I stayed there for the past two years, it has been a huge mistake. I thought it best to try and gut it out, but it has only gotten worse. To those who don't believe this is possible, do an online search of toxic workplaces, bullying bosses: there are numerous books and websites on the subject. The stress is horrible and real. Why would anyone want to make ups something so unpleasant is beyond me. I am currently seeking employment else where and am waiting for the word so I can give my two week notice. I only hope I can survive this experience without any more physical or pyschological damage.

Personally, it isn't that I don't believe such things can happen. I just don't believe that they are unique to nursing.

Specializes in ICU, ER, Hemodialysis.
i don't think nurses are all angels of mercy: that would be 1 end of the spectrum.

the other end of the spectrum: beastly, problematic, defiant, disrespectful power-mongers- obviously this too, is an extreme.

and that's why i struggle with this thread.

the problems the op has encountered with nsg, seems to pull to the other exteme in the aforementioned spectrum.

we all know there are some beasts out there, that work as nurses.

but to encounter so many?

it's just not credible.

i would be interested in knowing what all these other nurses had to say about this pa- how did he come across? what was their impression?

there are 2 sides here.

we are only hearing one.

but i am glad to hear that he has found a place of employment where he feels welcomed.

leslie

oh, I didn't mean to imply that all Nurses were "angels of mercy." I was just offering to the op what Nursing and Nurses were about. Of course you have your bad apples, but as a whole I think Nurses are very caring individuals that go into the profession for that reason. And yes, they are human and any time you deal with the public you run the risk of getting frustrated!

However, I stick by my original thoughts on what nursing is about. I wanted the op to understand what nursing/Nurses were about since he asked. It is the profession of caring and it takes a VERY special person to deliver this care on a daily basis.

Specializes in med-surg.

It appears through reading your bio that you're a student?

Several comments made that I would like to respond to:

What does the facility being union or not have to do with it? I have never worked in a non-union shop and this stuff would NOT have been tolerated by our union....the strongest one in CA and one of the strongest in the nation.

OP: you don't write up your coworkers. Okay, fine, then that makes you part of the problem because you are not willing to be part of the solution. I don't like to write up my coworkers either, but if I see repeated offenses where a pt's well being is jeopardized, I write it up. As for the incidents you described, those nurses were practicing medicine without a license and that is something both the BON and the medical boards would be interested in.

It appears through reading your bio that you're a student?

Who's a student? The OP's bio doesn't say that.

Specializes in med-surg.
were most of the hospitals you worked at union? if so i think therin lies your answer

And speaking of trolls......have you graduated from nursing school yet?

Specializes in med-surg.
Who's a student? The OP's bio doesn't say that.

Sorry, was referrring to ooNurseSharkoo; I stand corrected

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