money - page 2
is money as the incentive for joining the profession directly related to ability to provide quality care?... Read More
Jan 5, '02Well, I damn sure wouldn't leave my kids every evening and go work for free. So, I guess it IS the money that brings me here. Did money bring me into this profession?? lol, I think not.
Jan 5, '02Originally posted by thisnurse
listen, would you agree that as a profession we sell ourselves short?
My problem with our wages is not getting compensated for experience, knowledge, and education. All these things come with time on the floor and/or schooling. My fear is that, even if we were able to command $40/hour starting, that wage will remain constant, like it always has, while the new grad pay will be bumped up. Or, our raises will be paltry like they usually are..1% for example. Not even the cost of living!
A 15 year veteran nurse in L&D is now making LESS than the new grads she is training. THAT is shameful. So...while wages have definitely rose around here, the experienced nurses aren't seeing it.
This problem doesn't exist just in nursing though; my husband hired a man, without a degree, who is making more than my husband. This man REPORTS to my husband! There are inequities all over the place. It could be as widespread as nursing, and it could NOT be.
Also, in taking a hard look at myself: I am an RN with a BSN with 4 years experience in a high risk L&D floor, and when I work with this nurse Dawn who I totally respect clinically, who has been a nurse for 10 years and knows her stuff, compared to her, I don't see myself being worth $40/hour just yet . I have a long ways to go.
Jan 5, '02I understand where your coming from Susy K. I agree 100% with what your are saying. I work with nurses that have half the experience I have and they make as much or more. I think the starting pay for nurses in most area's is pretty good but there is nothing to look forward to once you in it for a while. You just stagnate with 1-2% raises every year. Nobody especially hospitals reward nurses for the experience or education, and I think $22./hr after almost 27yrs, having the title of nurse clinician and being in charge is a slap in the face. Especially since nurses with 10yrs are making 20 and they are bring in new grads at 18/hr.
Jan 5, '02and im saying the same thing. im not talking about new grads. of course a higher starting wage is an attempt to lure new grads into the hospitals. again...retention is not addressed and that seems to be the heart of the problem.
suzy..you ARE worth 40 bucks an hour not just to the patients but to the hospital as well.
for the patient:
after those years of experience you have seen most everything i would assume. you are confident and less likely to make a mistake. if i were having a complicated delivery i would much rather have YOU as my nurse than a new grad OR say a med/surg nurse like me, who is NOT experienced with deliveries.
so you are a SPECIALTY NURSE WITH EXPERIENCE..if i had to pay you out of my pocket 40 bucks an hour to care for me and my baby i would have no problem with that. i pay my primary that to look at a blood test.
from the hospital vantage point:
you have been there three years. you know the ropes. you know how the hospital works. you know the personell. you know what to do and when to do it. again...you are a SPECIALTY NURSE WITH EXPERIENCE AT THAT HOSPITAL...you are so much more likely to comply with the customer service they are constantly pushing down our throats.
we have just started a flexible scheduling program where i work. nurses with 2 years experience are eligable. thats one less year than you. they are paid 36 bucks an hour. in other words...if you came to our hospital, even tho you are not a med/surg nurse...they would pay YOU $36 an hour.
our hospital feels you are worth it...why dont you?
and lets consider the ICU nurses..ill use burn/trauma as an example since i was pulled there a few days ago.
you know what burns are like. there are few other injuries like a burn. so many of the patients on that unit are vented. so you have experienced nurses that know how to care for these critically ill patients to keep them alive AND they know how to do the treatments. consider that they also interact with the families AND can recognize when things are going bad MUCH faster than any of us can..so essentially, they are the eyes and ears of the docs. ive seen them tell the DOCS what needs done because they have experience the docs dont.
do you think $40 is a fair wage for them?
there are SOME nurses who DESERVE 80 grand a year. they are among them. of course, like you, i am basing this on specialty and experience.
suzy...dont sell yourself short. in the big scheme of things, and comparing what you do to other professions (and yes you have to) you are worth at least $40 an hour. dont forget, medicine is big business. even at that rate, how big of a piece of hospital pie is it?
now march on in there sistah and DEMAND a raise...lol
Jan 6, '02ThisNurse:
Oddly enough, I see what you are saying. But I guess when I compare myself to nurses to have even more experience than me, I have a problem accepting $40/hour because I feel that those nurses should get that. I guess...I don't know where to draw the line.
Can you really put a price on what a nurse knows? I agree with what you said: some nurses are worth $18/hr, some are worth $40/hr. I think with our profession it's hard to actually quantify our skills, especially with nursing being as diverse educationally as it is. Perhaps a good starting point is to decide on and have one point of entry into the profession - say, an ADN. (now that's a whole 'nother argument, I guess!)
The money thing bothers me sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't. When I hang around our friends who are all in different professions, I hear them talk about inequities in pay all the time. Nursing is not alone in that regard. I also then hear of my neighbor who has an Associate's Degree in Police Science and is a "Business Director" at a car dealership. The man makes at least $120,000/annual. That blows my mind, as I work day in and day out, trying to pay off my 10 year undergrad student loan, while also attempting to pay for grad school out of pocket on my crappy pay. But, admitedly, I like my hours at the clinic and feel that this is perfect job in which to go to grad school at the same time. I work day shift and have holidays off. It's a very pleasant work environment. Is it a trade-off? You bet it is. Should I have to make those decisions: better pay or better hours? No. Do other professions? Sure. Am I alone? Definitely not.
I don't know what the answer is. Maybe I am basing my opinion on what I should get paid according to the current nursing pay scale (and not including agency, travelers, etc) - but I just have a hard time accepting $40/hour - straight time - for what I do. Maybe my perception is off. I guess I just feel - too - inexperienced. And maybe that is a safe assessment of myself.
ThisNurse, thank you for the complimentary post. It's always nice to have discussions with someone who can articulate their opinions, and also do it nicely.
Jan 7, '02I went into nursing for the money 25 years ago so I could raise my sons. I'm a damn good nurse, I love what I do and I've always been able to support myself and my family on what I make.
So my answer is: Yes, you can go into it for the money and be a damn fine nurse.
Jan 8, '02debby...
dont you find that other nurses try to make you feel guilty for saying that money was your motivation?
what a bunch of crap!
Jan 8, '02Some people act like it is a crime to try to put food on the table. I am not going into nursing to make more money, but I am leaving teaching because of it. There is a difference. I felt that I was worth more than 12 dollars an hour, and I am just not going to do it anymore. Now if I ever feel that way about nursing, well, I will do something about it. But even with my masters in education I was only going to get about a 1200 dollar a year raise, and I feel that anyone with a masters level degree deserves more, and I see that nursing pays well at that level, and I also feel very confident that I will be a superb nurse, no doubt, just like you!!! Best wishes!
Jan 9, '02seems like its ONLY a crime to nursing.
doctors that go in the profession to make money are "smart"
Jan 9, '02I went into nursing because I saw it as a "career" opportunity. Not specifically for money, but security for my family. While no one's job is totally secure, nurses, teachers, an a few other professions have the ability to find work almost anywhere in the country. That appealed to me, and it still does. We all have to consider why we work, and I think for all of us it is the same reason... To provide for our families needs... And having a "career path" that allows the ability to do it consistently, is where I derive my family's security.
With that said, I do my job well because I enjoy what I do. I take pride in myself and in the responsibility with which I have been charged. As trained professionals we have an obligation to uphold a "professional standard" no matter what our salary may be. When you accept a patient assignment, they don't care about your financial status, but they do care about your professionalism.
If the pros and cons of a nursing career don't come out in your favor, financially or otherwise, then I would find a new field of employment. As for me... I am very happy and intend to be here for a while.
Jan 9, '02Originally posted by pattycake92
I But even with my masters in education I was only going to get about a 1200 dollar a year raise, and I feel that anyone with a masters level degree deserves more, and I see that nursing pays well at that level, !
In order to get appropriate compensation for your Masters, you will most likely have to leave clinical nursing and go into Staff Development, academia, or research.
Just an FYI.