Looking for job - past job reference iffy - how can I check before using?

[tralalaRN]

I'm currently employed, but looking for a part-time position to supplement. The job app, of course, wants to know past positions, including name of manager. Well, the position I had as an RN with a large dialysis company is my longest position to date. It was a brutal job, poor staffing. I was the only RN under a very dysfunctional clinical manager, who had some serious peronality problems and very passive/aggressive. The nurse before and after me left for exactly the same reasons. What I want to know is, is there a company I can hire that will check out my references to see what they are saying about me? Since I had never missed work while at this job, and had excellent reviews, is it legal for the clinical manager to dis me to a potential employer? If this is occurring, do I have recourse?

[hiddencatRN, BSN, RN]

If you google reference check you should find a bunch of companies that do this. I've never used one so I can't give any recs based on experience.

[Nascar nurse, ASN, RN]

In my state we are suppose to only give dates of employment. We are never suppose to give a personal opinion of what we thought of the employer. Now admittedly, that doesn't always happen. If a friend of mine at a facility across town calls about someone I may give them enough "hints" that they will get the drift that I didn't like that person.

Also consider that reference checks most often go through a HR department not the actual manager that you worked with. But again, keep in mind what I said in first paragraph.

I think I may be tempted to just have a friend call, ask for HR, and state "Hi, I'm Susie Sunshine from ____ (biggest health care employer in town) and I want to check references on _______". Really...who is ever going to know the difference!

OK, other posters - who's going to flame me for this - LOL.

[Double-Helix, BSN, RN]

The past employer can give any reference they want. If you did not leave on good terms, or the manager did not like your character, they are legally allowed to say so. It should be a truthful reference and if you found out they were lying then you could sue for slander, but that would be hard to prove, especially since the current company is unlikely to tell you what your past employer said.

If you are concerned, simply specify that they may not contact that employer, but be prepared to explain the reason.

I suppose you could have a friend call the past employer and ask for a reference, to save you the money and hassle of finding a company to do it.

[LaMorenaRN]

Most hospitals can only give dates of employment, whether you worked full or part time, the unit you worked on, and whether you are eligible for rehire.

[Jolie, BSN]

I would recommend calling the manager or HR yourself and ask what they would say in a reference. If they are willing to give a positive or neutral reference, ask them to put it in writing for you to take with you to a prospective employer.

If a former employee called me and asked what I would say in a reference, I would be honest.

To clarify what a previous poster said about states limiting the information that may be given in a reference, that is a common misconception. I know of no sate or federal law limiting what information may be shared in a reference, under 2 conditions: the candidate must give permission for the prospective employer to contact the former employer for a reference, and the information must be true. Some companies limit information to dates of employment and eligibility for re-hire in order to protect themselves from libel or slander suits, but these are company restrictions, not laws, to my knowledge.

Some states have even passed legislation placing legal responsibility on employers who give false positive references in order to "get rid of" employees with questionable work histories. This came about after a nurse was dismissed from one hospital where he was suspected of harming patients and given a good reference to go elsewhere. He killed patients at the latter hospital.

[roser13, ASN, RN]

Most hospitals can only give dates of employment, whether you worked full or part time, the unit you worked on, and whether you are eligible for rehire.

This is a common misconception and totally untrue. HR is not limited to dates/units/FT-PT, etc.

You are wise to check your resources.

[SummerGarden, BSN, MSN, RN]

do not list your clinical manger's phone number. it does not matter that they ask for it, don't list anything but hr. i have done this for years and have had no issues to date. i started this practice a while back when i listed a former manger as a personal reference without knowing that he was unprofessional. he did as one of the above poster reported he/she does to her former employees. he dropped illegal hints (himmed and hawwed to all questions) to dissuade prospective employers because he did not want me to leave.

in fact, in one instance his performance caused one company to call me twice and to give me a written notice informing me that they were not interested before i had a chance to follow up on my own. also, this occurred after i had a very very good interview and i passed two entrance exams. i removed him from my personal reference list and placed hr’s phone number down in place of his number! quickly afterwards, i got another job.

he yelled at me in front of the other staff (calling me a traitor and other names) because i was leaving him and the company. he was angry because i made a lot of money for his department and i managed to get hired without his knowing until i put in my two week notice!

you can hire an agency to check your refernces, but like i wrote above, just leave her name and number off of your list of personal references and leave only hr's number for her number. they cannot make you use her as a personal reference. if they ask why (i had only one company ask me this), inform them of the truth.

tell them that you trust hr to behave professionally and will respond to all questions appropriately. if they want to talk to references, you have a list of trusted co-workers and former supervisors to supply at their request.

[tralalaRN]

Thank you for your suggestions.

The former clinical manager - the one who actually hired me, told me to use her name rather than the current problematic clinical manager. This gets dicey though when they ask for the name and address of the employer and name of clinical manager. The former clinical manager has since moved on as well, so her phone number doesn't of course match the clinic phone number, which might seem suspicious should I go that route.

This is a stand-alone clinic without a HR dept on the premises. There is a regional HR dept overseeing a number of the stand-alone clinics - contacting them to see what they would say might be the way to go - had not thought of that one!

I strongly suspect that this current clinical manager has already done to me what one of the posters above also experienced. . I was still working at the clinic but applying elsewhere. Unfortunately, one potential employer contacted my manager, and because I was the only RN working there, she knew she would be up a creek if I left. So, I suspect that she gave me a poor reference, as up until that point, they were extremely interested in me. All of my references had been contacted. I had no idea that they would contact my CURRENT employer, even though I had not listed the manager as a reference. Of course, I left anyway. And yes, she was really up a creek for about a year having to work my shift, so I'm certain at this point, she REALLY would have some horrible things to say. .

Thanks all for sharing your thoughts. .

[jollydogg_RN, ADN, BSN]

I would recommend calling the manager or HR yourself and ask what they would say in a reference. If they are willing to give a positive or neutral reference, ask them to put it in writing for you to take with you to a prospective employer.

If a former employee called me and asked what I would say in a reference, I would be honest.

To clarify what a previous poster said about states limiting the information that may be given in a reference, that is a common misconception. I know of no sate or federal law limiting what information may be shared in a reference, under 2 conditions: the candidate must give permission for the prospective employer to contact the former employer for a reference, and the information must be true. Some companies limit information to dates of employment and eligibility for re-hire in order to protect themselves from libel or slander suits, but these are company restrictions, not laws, to my knowledge.

Some states have even passed legislation placing legal responsibility on employers who give false positive references in order to "get rid of" employees with questionable work histories. This came about after a nurse was dismissed from one hospital where he was suspected of harming patients and given a good reference to go elsewhere. He killed patients at the latter hospital.

Actually, I've been told by two jobs (in TN) that all they were going to put were dates of employment, and that they were NOT supposed to give reasons. They said legally, they couldn't tell other companies if I was fired or not, only the dates worked, and that I no longer work there. This was straight from the nursing manager and HR of the company.

So I'm assuming that poster is correct. At least here in TN, that is correct at least. I mean, I'm sure some managers still drop hints if they don't feel they should work somewhere else. Legal? Probably not.

[Bumashes, MSN, APRN, NP]

You could always have a friend pose as a potential employer (perhaps as a private individual hiring an RN for home care) and have them ask about you to see what is said. I know I know. Sneaky. But it's late, and I'm tired.

[eriksoln, BSN, RN]

the past employer can give any reference they want. if you did not leave on good terms, or the manager did not like your character, they are legally allowed to say so. it should be a truthful reference and if you found out they were lying then you could sue for slander, but that would be hard to prove, especially since the current company is unlikely to tell you what your past employer said.

if you are concerned, simply specify that they may not contact that employer, but be prepared to explain the reason.

i suppose you could have a friend call the past employer and ask for a reference, to save you the money and hassle of finding a company to do it.

this

biggest phorifice/urban legend/misconception of our time.............."your former employer can only give the dates you worked blah blah blah". wrong.

hr people are a little bit of a cult. they lean on one another. even if they work for competeing companies, they will support each other. if the hr dept. for the company you are applying to calls the hr dept. of the company you have a history with...........believe me, it all comes out (w/e hr knows anyway), unless those two specific hr workers don't like each other.

i had the misconception about former employers blown up for me during school. we were forced to sit through a career counseling seminar run by the school, even though back then jobs were a dime a dozen for nurses. the idea/attitude that former employers are not allowed to share dirt on a bad worker was the first thing he talked about. he was a former hr dept. manager and explained the "cult" workings of the field, how the law doesn't support slander but really doesn't deny the right to call someone "a bad worker" and even got into how they signal one another about when to hire and when not to:

[there is no tone with the written word but you get the drift here]

"soandso was here for five years. you got a real winner there."

or

"soandso was here for five years. you got a real winner there." (real sounding sarcastic)

try taking that to court and proving which one was communicated. can't be done.