Jehovah Witness RNs

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Ok, here I am waving my big "look at me" flag, hopefully not painting a giant target on myself..... :uhoh21:

Im looking for any RNs who are Jehovah's Witnesses. I am one (yes, active), and I have recently come across a work related issue that I have a question about. If anyone reading this is an active JW, please contact me (see email address on profile page) if you are comfortable talking. Thanks!

Specializes in Med/Surg, Geriatrics.
I am shocked that several posters are claiming there is no requirement to report fellow jws for violating church rules, given the fact that so much of their literature states that loud and clear (recent literature too).

Right. What is the value of people who have actually lived it telling you it's not true when you can pull up decades old documents on Google proving them wrong?

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Fair enough, fergus, but we all know that anecdotes are not a reliable source of data from which to draw sweeping conclusions. .

I thought we all knew that drawing sweeping conclusions about an entire group of people was wrong too. Apparently that isn't the case...

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Fair enough, fergus, but we all know that anecdotes are not a reliable source of data from which to draw sweeping conclusions. The facts have nothing to do with "negative feelings", they just are what they are.

jws have violated confidentiality by reporting things to church elders. It has happened and in fact I personally know of at least one lawsuit as a result.

I am shocked that several posters are claiming there is no requirement to report fellow jws for violating church rules, given the fact that so much of their literature states that loud and clear (recent literature too). Perhaps you should check your elders' manual too; I believe it states that the elders should administer disciplinary action for covering up someone else's wrongdoing.

As I understand it, jws regard their religion as universal, not characterized by local differences and whims of local elders. This would mean that what is in print is the universal practice. I think we could compare this to standards of nursing practice; they are definitely required but some nurses blow them off. The nurses blowing them off doesn't mean it's not a requirement.

If they broke the law and a lawsuit resulted from it then they are paying the price. Where is the problem? How is this affecting the rest of us? Why are people using their precious time to go looking through literature and elders manuals and websites for information about a group that they so clearly have problems with? This is much ado about nothing inmho. Again if they break the law they will have consequences. If they have a crisis of faith then it is up to them to remove themselves from a job that is causing the problem. Either way none of it is really our business. If the OP is reading this then perhaps a new thread is in order as this one is moving off topic.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in icu, er, transplant, case management, ps.
I'm not sure if you researched this prior to posting, but that happens to be inaccurate. The governing body of jws has put into print rules about pouring blood out on the ground immediately after it leaves the body. They state in writing that to do otherwise is a violation of God's law. Examples can be found in their literature regarding not using blood for other purposes such as dog food or garden fertilizer.

I refer you to http://ajwrb.org/watchtower/data1.shtml, the web site of a group of jws with information about the rules about blood, along with direct quotes from literature. Several quotes about storing blood are found on that page.

Violating any rule in the course of carrying out job duties is not allowed, according to the online elders' manual (though I have read that document in person in a Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses, so I am certain the online version is the same as the hard copy).

My dear, I am a believer in the tenets of the Roman Catholic Church. My SO is a Jew, who believes and follows the tenets of the Jewish faith. We both worked in the world. There were times when we had to make decisions that may have violated the tenets of our faiths. Or we could keep the tenets of our faiths and violate the laws of the state we lived in. My point is, people make decisions every day that violate both religious law or civil law. And when they choose to follow their religious beliefs over what is civilly demanded of them they have made up their minds. And they are willing to accept what happens to them.

I don't care if you have read the JW religious laws concerning behavior of it's believers. It really makes no difference to most of us because we all have our own religious beliefs. So, stop grinding the ax you have been grinding. You are a lapsed J.W. And like I said, there is only one thing worse then a lapsed Catholic, it is a lapsed J.W. who is going to put his former religion in it's place, come H*** or high water.

Woody:balloons:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Operating Room.

Ok, I have some questions...We were actually discussing protocols at orientation today regarding when a patient refuses blood for religious reasons. As I mentioned in an earlier post, one patient in our OR was a practicing JW, and told me that Cellsaver(autologous blood) was not allowed because the blood has left the patient's body, therefore it cannot be used. Another nurse in orientation said she'd taken care of a patient who was OK with the cellsaver.

I was wondering if there are varying degrees of JW's that belive differently on certain issues? We were wondering this today.

I don't have a problem with people refusing blood based on their beliefs. If they have been told the risks and possible outcomes and are not going to be litigious later, it's all good with me. And I don't get offended by those who go door to door. I do have to admit that I use the peephole on the door and just won't answer it.;)

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in icu, er, transplant, case management, ps.
Ok, I have some questions...We were actually discussing protocols at orientation today regarding when a patient refuses blood for religious reasons. As I mentioned in an earlier post, one patient in our OR was a practicing JW, and told me that Cellsaver(autologous blood) was not allowed because the blood has left the patient's body, therefore it cannot be used. Another nurse in orientation said she'd taken care of a patient who was OK with the cellsaver.

I was wondering if there are varying degrees of JW's that belive differently on certain issues? We were wondering this today.

I don't have a problem with people refusing blood based on their beliefs. If they have been told the risks and possible outcomes and are not going to be litigious later, it's all good with me. And I don't get offended by those who go door to door. I do have to admit that I use the peephole on the door and just won't answer it.;)

I think that the J.W. are just like every other religion. People have degrees as to what is morally acceptable to them within their religious beliefs. Yes, there are J.W.'s who use cellsavers, just as there are thise that do not.

And like you, I look out the peephole, anytime.:lol2:

Woody:balloons:

Up Vote Up Vote ×

We recently had a patient on our floor that was JW. She coded during a C/S and was in need of blood. She signed the refusal prior to surgery but her entire family "contested" the refusal form-basically because they didn't believe that their family member truly expected to encounter such a serious result from a "routine C/S." They ultimately "won." After their family member was brought back and then sent to the ICU and all looked good they wanted the "no blood products" issue to be in effect once again after it was initially contested. I am still confused about that entire scenario...

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in SICU.
We recently had a patient on our floor that was JW. She coded during a C/S and was in need of blood. She signed the refusal prior to surgery but her entire family "contested" the refusal form-basically because they didn't believe that their family member truly expected to encounter such a serious result from a "routine C/S." They ultimately "won." After their family member was brought back and then sent to the ICU and all looked good they wanted the "no blood products" issue to be in effect once again after it was initially contested. I am still confused about that entire scenario...

I guess she's what you could call a JW of convenience? I have no respect for someone who would use their JW status like a badge of honor when it can make them look like good faithful followers, but then run off with their tail tucked when the great beyond might be calling and suddenly they "didn't mean it"... Whatever...

Either you believe in something or you dont. Period. :trout:

This whole discussion has deteriorated and I'm just curious if the OP really ever had a question or was just trying to get a good debate going? There's been no response from her since the original post, I think...

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in icu, er, transplant, case management, ps.
We recently had a patient on our floor that was JW. She coded during a C/S and was in need of blood. She signed the refusal prior to surgery but her entire family "contested" the refusal form-basically because they didn't believe that their family member truly expected to encounter such a serious result from a "routine C/S." They ultimately "won." After their family member was brought back and then sent to the ICU and all looked good they wanted the "no blood products" issue to be in effect once again after it was initially contested. I am still confused about that entire scenario...

Some times, when confronted with a life or death situation, people will change their minds. And when it is no longer a life or death situation, revert back to their original beliefs. It is frustrating to us as nurses but it is their right. How did the patient feel about her blood transfusion when informed after her section?

Woody:balloons:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ER, ICU, Infusion, peds, informatics.
this whole discussion has deteriorated and i'm just curious if the op really ever had a question or was just trying to get a good debate going? there's been no response from her since the original post, i think...

from the op, it sounded as though she wanted to have a conversation via pm, probably to avoid getting attacked.

even if she had wanted to have a public discussion about how her beliefs impact her nursing care, it wouldn't surprise me that she hasn't responded back after the direction this thread has gone.

i've been following it because i find religions fascinating, and wanted to learn more about concerns of jws, esp regarding healthcare.

my limited experience with jws does show me that everyone follows the docterine of the faith a little differently. some accept albumin, some don't. some accept cell saver, some don't. it depends on what they are comfortable with.

that seems to be true of most religions.

even when the regligious docterines do not allow for individual interpretation, individuals do tend to take the parts of a religion they argree with, and leave the rest.

it may not be what the elders of the particular religion sanction, but it does happen.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Ok, I have some questions...We were actually discussing protocols at orientation today regarding when a patient refuses blood for religious reasons. As I mentioned in an earlier post, one patient in our OR was a practicing JW, and told me that Cellsaver(autologous blood) was not allowed because the blood has left the patient's body, therefore it cannot be used. Another nurse in orientation said she'd taken care of a patient who was OK with the cellsaver.

I was wondering if there are varying degrees of JW's that belive differently on certain issues? We were wondering this today.

Witnesses base their beliefs on the Bible, not on what a group of people tell them to believe, and the thing is, the Bible is 2000 years old. It mentions not taking in blood, but knowledge of blood fractions and Cellsaver was pretty sketchy at that point. ;)

So while JWs don't accept major blood products, as you start getting down to the molecular level, people choose for themselves how to apply what the Bible says about blood, hence the variety of treatments opted for.

Personally I'm guessing this point will probably be moot in 10-20 years. A lot more stuff will be synthetic, and non-blood treatments options will be pretty routine for everyone, not just JWs.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Ok so in the post about the C/S patient....

She signed the blood refusal form....did she have an advanced directive that states her family/spouse could make that decision...I am just confused leagally speaking...

If they sign the blood refusal....have not named anyone who can make decisions...and the family wants blood....can that patient recover, then sue the hospital???

Also....to any JWs out there....if patient comes in the ER from an MVA and is uncounsious....receives blood...are there any ramifications from the church.....

and if the MD gets a court order for a child to receive blood against the parents wishes....does that child have ramifications from the church??

this is all very interesting to me and I think this board is a great place to share opinions, ideas, and share experiences. I am not here to BASH anyone...I just find all this very interesting and informative.

side note....I have worked with one JW nurse before, never had an issues as far as giving blood, confidentiality, ect....that I know of. However, it was very common for us to have pot lucks for peoples birthdays....if she participates...is that against the JW religion? again...just curious....

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Add a Comment