Is anyone else uncomfortable with this? - page 4

I know I should be thankful when a CMT is on my floor and passes my meds for me, but it makes me somewhat uncomfortable and I feel the need to pass the meds myself. I'm just not sure that a CMT will... Read More

  1. by   Gromit
    Still don't know what a CMT is as its referred to here. In MY facility, CMT means Cardiac Monitor Tech -and that should go without saying -they don't pass meds or even have patient contact.
    That said, I do not believe Florida allows for a CMT in the sense that its being referred to on this thread -and in ANY case, its MY patient, MY license, MY responsibility - >I'M< passing the meds. -its really the only way to be sure.
  2. by   sddlnscp
    Gromit, I am not sure either, but I think (and I know, thinking can get you into trouble - hehe) that a CMT is a certified med tech.

    I was actually just discussing this very subject with a friend of mine. Her daughter is starting work at an assisted living facility and she was actually very concerned because they are required to become Q-MAP (sorry, I don't know what that stands for) certified so that they can pass meds. She said the class they take is only a 2-day class and then they take a test at the end of day #2. If they pass this test, they can give Meds. She doesn't have to get a CNA license or anything, just this 2-day course and she can give meds at this assited living. She was very nervous about the idea, and I really was too. She said that she didn't think she would want her parents to be cared for there given the complete lack of education and health care providers in the facility. She says that the care the people receive there is very compassionate, but to her, she was still not comfortable with the lack of education. Anyway, just thought that was interesting and correlated with this thread.
  3. by   CruisingRN
    my mom and i are both nurses, and worked in a prison. i was only prn/per diem, but mom worked part-time.
    they decided about 2 years ago they would get rid of all the lpns and replace them with these 'certified med techs'

    it was a bit to-do. all the nurses (rn/lpn) were very upset.

    although the lpns in the facility were primarily responsible for giving medications, they were a much more integral part of the team than a med tech could ever be, and could function in other roles aside from medication administration.

    the lpns assisted with sick call, emergencies, first aide, etc.; how could they justify replacing a trained nurse with a med tech?

    that was the part they did not take into consideration.
    on any given night when mom worked, there would be either 3 or 4 nurses to staff a unit responsible for a population of about 1500 inmates.

    when mom found out they were doing this she quit, and i didn't blame her at all. i myself never did anymore shifts there either.

    the way she looked at it was, how on earth could you expect 1 nurse to deal with an emergency situation, with no back-up or support from another nurse? (there was a satellite unit about a mile away, so 1 nurse always went there and might not be available, so the rn would be left with only a med tech!)

    she felt it was a risk to her license, and that is why she quit. it's a shame too, because we both liked the job.

    you will see this sort of thing happening more and more... untrained people performing tasks that were always a part of the nurses' duties.


    it kind of takes us to the adn / bsn debate a bit... if we require all nurse to have bsns, we are making the pool of nurses even smaller than it already is. this gives the powers that be the opportunity to create new postions to take the place of a nurse.


    so, instead of a trained rn caring for patients, you will see more and more 'techs' than there already are.


    sometimes nurses are our own worst enemy. be careful what you wish for, because sometimes you really get it!


    i am definitely not opposed to having a bsn; i actually went back to school a few years ago to start the process and found that what i was learning had absolutely nothing to do with how good of a nurse i am.
    i chose to stop pursuing my bsn after i found another career that i enjoy immensely. i enjoy traveling, so became a travel agent part-time. it give a nice balance to my life.


    i don't need a bsn to show how good of a nurse i am.
    i am a great nurse; competent and skilled.
    fortunately i will be grandfathered in with my aas degree if it becomes a requirement.


    if they weren't grandfathering, it would be such a loss to not have me as a nurse. i'm sure there are many other excellent nurses out there who can't go back to school for their bsn; it will be a crime to see any of them lose their licenses.


    i think nursing leaders need to re-think their postion.

    who would you rather supervise or have care for your loved one... a patient care tech??? or a registered nurse?


    you know my answer!

    amanda dieterich, rn
  4. by   Gromit
    Her daughter is definately wise in her assessment. No WAY would I want people who have only a couple of days of 'classes' to be responsible for passing meds. Thats outrageous. A lawsuit waiting to happen, if you ask me. Thats just rediculous. We do FAR MORE than just give folks pills and a cup of water. Their vitals are assessed and taken into account -as is their general condition -as nurses we are expected to know when to withold meds and phone the doc (or pharmacy) if something doesn't seem right. Heck, with this attitude, why not just have a meds dispensing machine in each patients' bathroom, that will dispense the proper medication into a cup at the right time ? The effect would be about the same.
  5. by   sddlnscp
    My thoughts exactly Gromit! Very scary. Hopefully she is not getting herself into a mess. I think it's frightening and it makes me never want to allow my parents or anyone I care about to go into an assisted living facility (at least not one where this is allowed), no matter how "pretty" it is! What truly concerns me is that the state's rules allow it. Yikes! Anyway, thanks for the input!
  6. by   jill48
    Quote from Gromit
    Still don't know what a CMT is as its referred to here. In MY facility, CMT means Cardiac Monitor Tech -and that should go without saying -they don't pass meds or even have patient contact.
    That said, I do not believe Florida allows for a CMT in the sense that its being referred to on this thread -and in ANY case, its MY patient, MY license, MY responsibility - >I'M< passing the meds. -its really the only way to be sure.
    I'm sorry Gromit; yes, a CMT is a Certified Med Techinician.
  7. by   Gromit
    Thanks Jill. Its amazing how even now, terms can be bantered about and still mean different things (in my facility, CMT is cardiac monitor tech) Ah well, learn something new every day
  8. by   cmatobe
    jill48, you are right on all counts. Believe me, we are all very aware of how little we will know when we start to work. And we are all by now wishing that this course was 3 months long, instead of 3 weeks. But the Ohio Board of Nursing set the curriculum - not the individual schools - and the OBN has said that the 120-hr. course is adequate.

    I am going to try to post more on it all, today or tomorrow.
  9. by   cmatobe
    Quote from lvn2bsoon
    And those extenuating circumstances would be.....the death of the patient, the nurse being sued and his/her career ruined by this non-licensed person?
    I am speaking of something simpler - if a busy nurse says "go ahead and give Mrs. Jones some Tylenol, and I`ll call and get an order" and I DO go ahead and give her some, then both myself and the nurse are on the line.

    On the other hand, if I go and tell the nurse " I gave Mrs. Jones 2 Tylenol for back pain, but she doesn`t have an order yet - can you get one?" then it is MY problem, and mine alone.

    Our procedure for passing meds. is as strict as the nurses`. We are well aware of what we can and cannot do. But if we pass our meds. within the guidelines we are trained for, all will be well.
  10. by   cmatobe
    Day 1: Introduction to the role of the CMA

    Day 2: Medical Terminology, Abbreviations, Symbols

    Day 3: Overview of Anatomy & Physiology

    Day 4: Nervous System and Sensory System

    Day 5: Cardiovascular/Respiratory System

    Day 6: Basic Pharmacology

    Day 7: Basic Pharmacology (cont`d)

    Day 8: Rights of Medication Administration

    Day 9: Safe Administration of Medication

    Day 10: Safe Administration of Medication (cont`d)

    Day 11: Appropriate Documentation

    Day 12: Medication Error Identification, Reporting, and Documentation

    Day 13 thru Day 19: Clinicals

    Day 20: Final Exam

    (see new thread, please - thanks)
    Last edit by cmatobe on Mar 10, '07 : Reason: posted new thread
  11. by   cmatobe
    The above is the curriculum set forth by the OBN. Our instructors have added to it, and, as you can see, it is 4 weeks instead of 3.

    The OBN put together a text for this course, and sent it to the schools who are giving the training. Our instructors added the additional information that they felt was necessary for us to learn, then modified the text into student form.

    In addition to our own textbooks, which were taken from the state text, we have an additional booklet of 25 pages of different classifications of medicines, with all of the commonly-used medications for each area listed for us.(This was also taken from the OBN text)

    Our clinicals are to be one-on-one ( one student with one instructor) for 5 days, in one of the nursing homes in the pilot program.

    We must maintain a grade average of 80% in order to graduate.(80% was the figure set by the OBN)
  12. by   cmatobe
    I have started the new thread " Ohio CMC Course Outline" for more expedient reading/posting. THANX
    Last edit by cmatobe on Mar 10, '07 : Reason: started new thread
  13. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    On the other hand, if I go and tell the nurse " I gave Mrs. Jones 2 Tylenol for back pain, but she doesn`t have an order yet - can you get one?" then it is MY problem, and mine alone
    Completely disagree. It's yet another scenario where the nurse is the fallguy.

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