Fictional vital sign charting

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Today, as part of my rapid response rounding, I spent an hour at the bedside of a patient who was having respiratory issues secondary to TB and exacerbated by CHF. The whole time I was there, the patient's O2 sat never exceeded 89% despite his being on Hi Flo NC at 100% FIO2 and 30L/min. I had a lovely argument via telephone with the brand new intern who claimed that putting patient on NRB would violate the patient's wife's wishes that he be a partial code and basically disallowed everything except for pressors in the event of a code. (The patient and his wife had no idea that they had apparently signed away their rights to an O2 mask!).

In any case, the doc at one point said, "I just checked his chart, and he looks like he's doing okay.". HUH??? I walked to the nearest computer cart and opened the patient's chart. Sure enough someone had charted the patient's vital signs as O2 sat of 94% on 50% FIO2--ten minutes ago! Up and down the halls I roamed searching for the person who had charted these vitals. The hour I spent in that room, not one other person had come in to take vitals or assess the patient. Apparently it was the CNA. CNAs are responsible for getting vitals on the patients on our med-surg floors. Unfortunately this is not the first time I have found the charted vitals to be completely divorced from reality. Every med-surg patient has a respiratory rate of 18 or 20 for some reason, and nobody's O2 sat is ever below 90 unless the patient is busy for some other reason (diarrhea for instance) and the floor nurses want her/him transferred to a higher level of care. I have noticed that assessments and vitals are especially fictional if the patient, like this one, is on isolation precautions.

I could not find the CNA, but the RN for the patient assured me that the charting must have been a mistake. She thought that the CNA must have charted another patient's vital signs in this patient's chart. I decided not to make a stink about it so as to maintain good relations with the staff on that med-surg floor, but the more I think about it the more I feel that the CNA made up those vital signs just so he wouldn't have to enter the room; the values were much too similar to what the vitals had been 4 hours previously.

What do you think? What would you do? Find the CNA and question him (he pretty much disappeared after that!)? Fill out an incident report. Contact the manager for that floor? I did put a note in the chart stating that I had been at bedside during the time the vitals signs were alleged to have been taken and charted the actual O2 sats and FIO2 on top of the erroneous values.

Specializes in Renal/Cardiac.
I am a student nurse. I honestly have never seen an RR that is not 18 or 20 on med surg floors. Students are the only people who actually would go in and count it. One time I counted 14 or 16 and I charted it. Later I checked the chart, someone has changed my number to 20...

I beg to differ with you, I do not think students are the only ones that actually go in and count the RR I have been doing this for years and I of alot of my coworkers that do it so it is not just the students that actually count RR

Specializes in geriatrics.

I have worked various areas as a student and a nurse. I have seen respiratory rates as low as 8 and as high as 42. If you are going to give a narcotic for example, and the respiratory rate is too low already, the pt might go into a coma or die. Of course you visualize resps, but these should be counted, and not simply guessing 16, 18, 20 as some posters have suggested.

Specializes in Geriatrics, Home Health.

Stupid question: what is the difference between counting respirations and visualizing them?

When I work with a certain CNA, I take all my own VS. I have caught her blatantly charting fictional VS too many times when the pt's VS were outside the norms. Why...because that means more work, like more frequent VS, now if the pt's BP is low, she'll tell, because we might have to call the emergency response team, but a high BP or temp means more work for her, because we automatically change the pt to frequent VS.

Well I work a cardiovascular surgical floor. A high BP for a fresh carotid endarterectomy or aortic graft can mean a whole lotta badness...culminating in a very fast heart rate and that low BP... Smile and nod if you agree with me...

When management tried to get me for getting out late, stating I should have delegated some of my work, I pulled a copy of my papertrail and the relevant links to the State's Nurse Practice Act and stated that in good conscience I could not delegate to that particular CNA. However, any other CNA on my floor, I can and do. I was pretty much left alone after that. Of course, I do delegate little things, like ice water, walking stable people to the bathroom, etc.

Specializes in Geriatrics, Dialysis.

An easy fix, just don't trust anybody's senses except your own. If I am performing an assessment, I get my own VS, BGL etc. I also only do a manual BP because I trust my own ears more than our machine which has proved to be inaccurate but is still in use. As for the false VS being entered in a chart, that is clearly falsifying documentation which is grounds for immediate dismissal every where I know of. If you legitimately believe the VS were faked and not just entered incorrectly, turn it in to management.

Stupid question: what is the difference between counting respirations and visualizing them?

I think they are saying they guesstimate.

Just count- it only takes 15 seconds for goodness sakes. People please! Why would you chart something that you did not do???:uhoh3:

if vs are in the cna's job description, then no more money is warranted.

actually, they should start deducting money from paycheck, if found to be not taking vitals.

leslie

my comment was in response to someone who mentioned that CNAs should get more education. hence, the comment that "along with more education comes more pay."

if i had said "if CNAs were paid more to do vitals then maybe they would" then i could see your point, but that wasn't the comment i was responding to.

i'm not certain if they need to know how vitals relate to particular illness.

i would think just knowing why high/low bp, pulse, temp, resps are concerning, and what ea vital can do to one's body, i.e., bp affects cardiac ouput, and can do x, y, z to body.

keep it simple in layman's terms...yet very generalized.:twocents:

this concept really needs to be reinforced.

always, always, always count.

i believe most of us can assess a heart rate or resps, to be wnl...

yet it may not be normal if it's not pt's baseline.

and yes, never just look at the numbers.

you need to assess pt presentation...diaphoretic? using accessory muscles? restless?

and never ever go by pulse ox.

do you know how many times i've gotten 90+, yet pt critically ill (pulm edema, chf for examples)

i've had nurses tell me to "look at the ox number" and at times such as these, i immediately respond, "look at the damned pt!!"

please, accurate vitals...they are our most assistive tool.

and, it's the first question dr's ask of us when trying to make decision about pt.

leslie

another issue. not only are CNAs not told this during training, but so many nurses would rather die than to let them know that their job actually IS important.

i'm not certain if they need to know how vitals relate to particular illness.

i would think just knowing why high/low bp, pulse, temp, resps are concerning, and what ea vital can do to one's body, i.e., bp affects cardiac ouput, and can do x, y, z to body.

keep it simple in layman's terms...yet very generalized.:twocents:

I think if they do not understand that a deviation is a symptom and is important then they will not see the reason to be accurate. I am not saying they need to know everything in a med-surg book, but they need to understand why they are counting the respirations, not just how to do it.

Now that I see that it is not just CNAs who are doing this I am unsure what to think. I was thinking it was because they did not understand, but if other health care workers do this too then what does it mean?

I was visiting my mother in the hospital not long ago and the male nurse could not get the automatic BP cuff to work. He went and got another one and still was having problems. There was one on the wall behind her bed and I suggested he try taking it manually. Maybe they just were not sensing her for some reason. He looked at me like he did not understand. I thought - don't people even take BPs manually anymore? I had to leave so I am not sure what happened. I wondered if he even remembered how to take a BP with a regular cuff.

Are we all on autopilot these days? Too much information overload?

i agree w you that CNAs should understad why it's important to be accurate, and YES, i do think some people are on autopilot. i felt like i flew right through my BSN program which was "accelerated" and i wonder how the AS nurses must've felt when put on the floor after their "education."

i remember as a CNA when i would report abnormal vitals for a patient the nurses would always ask me to check manually. it didn't matter if i was running around chasing my tail with a sweat trail behind me and they were chilling at the nurse's station - they'd have me do it. i would always joke that i didn't think they knew HOW to get manual BP, but i found out it wasn't a joke.....they really didn't/don't know how. it's obvious.

Specializes in Critical Care.
i have to say that during my time of being the vital sign taker aka CNA, respirations usually did fall between 16-20 and that was on med/surg. sometimes i'd get a 14 thrown into the mix and then of course anything over 20 was usually obvious and could actually be heard. there were a few times when i got something abnormally high and before charting it i would go to the nurse and say, "i'm counting 34 so would you please come check?" or the opposite of, "i just can't count this patient's respirations so would you mind seeing what you get?" because let's face it - patients with very low RR can be hard to assess if you're trying to be discreet. another reason i would ask for someone to come and double check is bc i didn't want to chart something if the nurse was able to remedy it first which they often wanted to do. either way, i didn't ever make something up! but i DID see that happen before w another CNA. i actually came home and told my husband about it bc i was griping about how she made me do all the work not to "see if i could handle it" but bc she was lazy, and i mentioned how dangerous it was to skip vitals. even as a "newbie" i had seen how quickly a patient's VS could change and reporting that change to the nurse was usually the first step/indicator of problems that were arising.

that being said, i made mistakes myself, and that's exactly what they were - mistakes. i remember one time in particular a nurse was charting (paper charts) and had been sitting outside of the patient's room whose vital signs i was taking and left the chart she was working on at that patient's alcove. i ASSUMED that was the patient's chart and therefore charted the right vitals in the wrong chart. we caught the mistake later and there was no suspicion bc it was clear what had happened. ideally, i would have double checked the front of the chart and matched up the name/room, and ideally the nurse wouldn't have left a patient's chart in a different patient's alcove, but we're humans who make mistakes. there was another time where i had written a patient's VS on a piece of paper bc their chart wasn't there and i planned to put them in later. the doctor showed up, asked if i had the VS, so i reached in my pocket and handed him the paper. later, when the nurse was checking the chart and wanted to know the VS - the doctor was gone and so was the paper.

i think before you assume the worst you have to give the benefit of the doubt. i would've been very upset if i were accused of falsifying records intentionally bc i would never do that. however, if it's something that you notice happening AFTER they're confronted or if there's no valid reason, it needs to be taken further. if he/she uses an electronic BP machine, how about stopping them after they've supposedly taken 3-4 patient's VS and ask to see the history on the machine. see if the history on the machine matches up with what has been charted. that would be a pretty simple way to find out and you would have proof that would be hard to deny when confronted.

you sound like a very conscientious CNA. Keep up the good work!

Specializes in LTC, CPR instructor, First aid instructor..

I have had this happen to me and I have seen it done with other patients as well. It never ever pays to take shortcuts! Someone could lose his or her life. I know, I almost did.

Personally, I believe anyone caught charting vital signs without checking them should be reported to the nurse manager. Hopefully then there will be some action taken. Just my :twocents:

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