Excelsior College - page 4

:uhoh3: anyone have any comments, ideas, thoughts, info or know anything or anyone who has gone through this program? i just lack my advance nursing classes and micro to obtain my asn. i was in a... Read More

  1. by   chris_at_lucas_RN
    I don't see any posts about the CA versus EC issue that mentions politics.

    Seen what CA nursing schools charge for tuition and fees? Think that doesn't enter into it? Really????
  2. by   Sheri257
    As far as bias, tuition, politics and other possible motives, I don't think the California decision has much to do with that. The reason, actually, is very simple: The EC program doesn't comply with California law.

    Once they received complaints, the state launched an investigation. They found several areas of non-compliance with laws and regulations that every California school has to follow. One of the issues was required clinical rotations in various specialties which the EC program doesn't address, among many other things.

    So, if you think about it, they had one of two choices, since EC said they couldn't comply. One is: You make an exception. That's very difficult because it requires changes in laws and regulations that every other school has to follow, and it's unlikely they could do that for just one school. And it's extremely difficult to justify an exception to your own rules, when some major nurses' and hospital associations are telling you there's a problem.

    So they told EC to follow the rules and, since they couldn't, they pulled out. I also think this will probably make the EC lawsuit a difficult proposition. At least, that's my analysis of the situation, after reading the board minutes.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on May 12, '04
  3. by   NurseChick04
    Ex130load,

    Well you should pat yourself on the back for that great litttle speech
    Maybe you should have read my reply to the other user's comments as it will clearly say that I did not call this person "stupid", I simply said her comment was. Trust me, I do not feel that I live in a glass house but when someone makes rude comments about a school that I am attending it offends me. Especially if this person has never taken any classes through this school. So, thanks for your comments but next time read the whole story before you get excited and make comments that don't apply. Have a nice day!




    Quote from Ex130Load
    NurseChick04, there's an expression about living in glass houses and throwing stones. I feel it most definitely applies to you. You passed judgment on another poster's clinical skills based upon her spelling ability. The two are not necessarily linked to each other. I could critically analyze some of your sentences and wonder if they are reflective of your clinical skills--lack of commas, the word but is a conjunction and its use usually mandates a comma before, use of I twice within a sentence and separated by the word and (redundant), subject-verb agreement (...these... states that allows... ), the correct use of "...", incorrect word usage--...about what good grades... ("the" would have been a much better choice than what), a run-on sentence, etc. ad nauseum. To call another person stupid--wow. I'm somewhat surprised the moderator let that one fly without a comment to the effect of being less personal and or that each is allowed their own opinion. When you launch into personal tirades, keep in mind your comments become public record for to judge. None of us are perfect, some more painfully so than others. My response is not intended as a rebuke, but as a point to consider. However, if you fail to undersatand the gist and feel obligated to respond as previously, well... bring it on. Hopefully you won't. Hopefully, you'll consider my intention, its worth, and modify future actions.

    For the record to one and all, I apologize for any grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. errors.
  4. by   Sheri257
    Incidentally, since CPNE has been mentioned several times, I thought you guys might be interested in what the board had the say about that. Here are some quotes:

    "CPNE is a weekend course, administered over two and a half days, with a limited number of patients involving only two areas of nursing (med-surg and peds.) The CPNE is not equivalent to the minimum education requirements for clinical practice under California law."

    "Excelsior indicates it awards 8 units of credit which Excelsior translates to 360 clinical hours (3 hours per credit times 15 week semester.) The Board will not accept a two and a half day weekend course as equivalent to 360 hours of supervised clinical practice, no matter how many units Excelsior gives it students. CPNE is held over a weekend, not over a 15 week semester."

    Regarding LVNs: "Because CPNE does not test all of the required areas, it cannot be substituted as challenging all areas and meeting the five required areas of clinical practice. Clinical courses cannot be challenged when students have not had the content. For example, advanced medical surgical nursing and psychiatric nursing are RN level courses and are not taught in California LVN programs."

    Here's the link if you'd like to read more:

    http://www.rn.ca.gov/pdf/brdmins%2012-03.pdf

    BTW, since someone asked if they could opt into California from another state with the EC program, this document says the state nixed that option.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on May 11, '04
  5. by   Ex130Load
    NurseChick04,

    I stand corrected and apologize. You did not call a person stupid, only labeled their comments as such. I stand by my remaining observations and recommendations.

    Regarding Excelsior's English classes, perhaps you may want to locate the phone number to which you alluded. If you have previously completed their English classes, a refresher course might be of value. The word little only has two Ts. Please learn a little more about the use of commas and sentence fragments. Should we make assumptions regarding your clinical skills based upon writing abilities?

    Taking offense to "...rude comments about a school that I am attending...," you are kidding, right?

    I am not excited. I am a bit disappointed, but not surprisingly so.

    If you feel compelled to respond again, you have the last word. I am finishing this chapter and moving to another. I hope the learning process has not flat lined.

    I reciprocate by wishing you a nice day. I write that free of sarcasm, bitterness, or hostility. I hope you will take to heart what I've written today and previously. I further hope you will again consider my intention, its worth, and modify future actions.
  6. by   BBFRN
    Chris- Lizz and I actually had a rather heated debate over that issue several months ago (Hi Lizz!). Guess who was one of the biggest pro-EC-banning spokespeople? Dr. Frye. He seems to enjoy the profits from his EC study materials, but doesn't trust enough in his own product to back it up in front of the BRN.

    Dawn- Good to see you over here!
  7. by   BBFRN
    Forgot to mention something else that smells like a rat. There are several CPNE sites in CA run by their Nurse's Association. If the hospitals in CA don't trust EC grads, why in the world are they letting its students do the CPNE in their facilities on their patients???
  8. by   Sheri257
    Hey Laura: Just out of curiousity, are you sure it's the same guy? Charles Frye, that is. I can't remember if we determined if it was actually the same guy or not.

    As far as nursing associations, are you talking about CNA? That would be interesting since they were also quoted in the newspaper criticizing the EC program.

    The law seems to be the biggest problem here. I don't see how anyone can expect a state agency to disregard state law and regulations, once this became an issue. That's a tough argument to make, regardless of the circumstances.

    Just an observation.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on May 11, '04
  9. by   BBFRN
    Lizz-

    Yes, it's the same Charles Frye- he sells EC study materials for the Nursing Concepts courses, as well as for the CPNE. I'll have to do a search and find the web address for his study materials.

    As for the CPNE test sites in CA, I just looked them up. I'm taking it in Atlanta, GA and have called the administration office there several times- it's actually the GA Nurse's Assoc. office. I could be wrong about the same thing being true for CA. The CPNE test sites in CA are in hospitals in Long Beach, San Diego, and Orange, CA. People are still scheduling at those sites, so they're not planning on withdrawing any time soon from what I can tell. It seems that some CA hospitals have no problem with EC nursing students caring for their pts, although the CPNE is supervised. I guess it's a different story once they become graduates?
  10. by   Sheri257
    Quote from lgflamini
    It seems that some CA hospitals have no problem with EC nursing students caring for their pts, although the CPNE is supervised. I guess it's a different story once they become graduates?
    Well, I've certainly tried to be careful and say "some" hospitals had a problem. As we've discussed before, that doesn't mean all of them. Interesting if some are still scheduling CPNE sessions. I guess that's for the people who were grandfathered in before the December deadline.

  11. by   BBFRN
    Maybe, or they can justify it by saying that not all the CA CPNE students are going to be working in CA, since the sites are regional. It just struck me as odd that they will accept the student status, but not the grad status. (if that makes sense...lol).
  12. by   Sheri257
    That's an interesting point. Maybe they will hire those grads, since they still can be licensed if they enrolled before the December deadine. Although I wonder if EC also pays them for CPNE and if there are contractural obligations involved. If so, that could be another reason.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on May 11, '04
  13. by   NurseChick04
    LOL...Yes, I would like to have the last word on this. You seem like the type of person that has very low self esteem and in order to "pump" yourself up you try to make other's feel little. For whatever reason the comments I made about another's reply regarding EC has got you all worked up. I feel I had every right to make the comment I did because this person was basically saying that if we don't go to a "normal" college for an RN degree then we will not be good nurses. Maybe you were just looking for someone you thought you could belittle..but sorry, I have confidence in myself and my clinical skills as a nurse. As an LVN I have come across a few RN's that act like they are a "higher power" just because of their title. I will be an RN soon and I will not treat others that way. Maybe you need to find another field to work in..we definately don't need any more "power trips" out there. Go ahead and go to another subject. You're wasting my time with all this garbage you talk..go bully someone else, I don't get bullied easy.

    P.S. As far as my errors in writing..I am not perfect and never claimed to be but come on..if you can't spell simple words or even pronounce them then maybe there is room for a class..I give room for typo's but pure wrong pronunciation over and over indicates a problem.






    Quote from Ex130Load
    NurseChick04,

    I stand corrected and apologize. You did not call a person stupid, only labeled their comments as such. I stand by my remaining observations and recommendations.

    Regarding Excelsior's English classes, perhaps you may want to locate the phone number to which you alluded. If you have previously completed their English classes, a refresher course might be of value. The word little only has two Ts. Please learn a little more about the use of commas and sentence fragments. Should we make assumptions regarding your clinical skills based upon writing abilities?

    Taking offense to "...rude comments about a school that I am attending...," you are kidding, right?

    I am not excited. I am a bit disappointed, but not surprisingly so.

    If you feel compelled to respond again, you have the last word. I am finishing this chapter and moving to another. I hope the learning process has not flat lined.

    I reciprocate by wishing you a nice day. I write that free of sarcasm, bitterness, or hostility. I hope you will take to heart what I've written today and previously. I further hope you will again consider my intention, its worth, and modify future actions.

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