Excelsior College

jadedRN04 · May 10, 2004

Hello! I graduated form EC this past March and passed the NCLEX in April. I would not have gone any other route, and I live in an area where we are saturated with nursing schools. I was a LPN for 6 years and had a strong background in med/surg and ccu.

I do believe that to legitimately complete this program you need to have been a LPN/LVN or paramedic. It seems that EC has caught onto this also. They have taken surgical techs, medical assistants, and EMT's out of the running. I do believe they might accept EMT's who can verify a certain number of patient care hours, though, I'm not sure.

Anyway, I believe to do our patients and our employers justice, EC graduates need strong clinical/patient care skills whatever background you come from.

mobileLPN · May 10, 2004

Even as pro excelsior as I am, I too have advised people who didn't have a lot of clinical experience to go a more traditional route. Primarily because I didn't want to advise them to invest all the time, effort, and money into the exams, only to fail the CPNE. Hopefully Excelsior will further limit enrollment to LP/VNs or Paramedics. That having been said, the CA BRN decision still borders on the absurd. Every program, ADN or BSN will occasionally spit out someone not competent to give care. The worst nurse I ever worked with graduated from a very reputable BSN program. She didn't even have a grasp of basic terminology. These people still have to apply, interview, and orient at a facility before before they become a danger to anybody. It sounds like the hospitals that spoke against excelsior should probably look at their HR departments pretty close to see if they might find part of the problem. Hopefully the BRN and Excelsior will come to an agreement.

"A little revolution now and again is a good thing.." -Thomas Jefferson

rn4booboo · May 10, 2004

This school is a total was of your time if you truly want to learn and be confident in your abilities as an RN go to either an ADN program or BSN program. There is a reason way this school was banded in CA. You have no guidance and you truly arent't given the skills you need to be successful as a nurse.

Disagree wholeheartedly. I am an Excelsior graduate- with a DEGREE, and am also getting my BSN. Excelsior was not "banded" as you say- there is now an element of clinical time for those going LPN to RN, and they have elected to not allow EMT's into the program. Excelsior is now suing the state board in CA because since it is a NLN accredited (do you not have ANY faith in the NLN?) school, they are actually being biased. You have guidance from the one person that you need to actually count on...YOU, otherwise you could never make it through a program like this.

I am confident- you sound absolutely angry though.

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · May 10, 2004

I don't see any posts about the CA versus EC issue that mentions politics.

Seen what CA nursing schools charge for tuition and fees? Think that doesn't enter into it? Really????

Sheri257 · May 11, 2004

As far as bias, tuition, politics and other possible motives, I don't think the California decision has much to do with that. The reason, actually, is very simple: The EC program doesn't comply with California law.

Once they received complaints, the state launched an investigation. They found several areas of non-compliance with laws and regulations that every California school has to follow. One of the issues was required clinical rotations in various specialties which the EC program doesn't address, among many other things.

So, if you think about it, they had one of two choices, since EC said they couldn't comply. One is: You make an exception. That's very difficult because it requires changes in laws and regulations that every other school has to follow, and it's unlikely they could do that for just one school. And it's extremely difficult to justify an exception to your own rules, when some major nurses' and hospital associations are telling you there's a problem.

So they told EC to follow the rules and, since they couldn't, they pulled out. I also think this will probably make the EC lawsuit a difficult proposition. At least, that's my analysis of the situation, after reading the board minutes.

:smokin:

NurseChick04 · May 11, 2004

Ex130load,

Well you should pat yourself on the back for that great litttle speech :)

Maybe you should have read my reply to the other user's comments as it will clearly say that I did not call this person "stupid", I simply said her comment was. Trust me, I do not feel that I live in a glass house but when someone makes rude comments about a school that I am attending it offends me. Especially if this person has never taken any classes through this school. So, thanks for your comments but next time read the whole story before you get excited and make comments that don't apply. Have a nice day!

NurseChick04, there's an expression about living in glass houses and throwing stones. I feel it most definitely applies to you. You passed judgment on another poster's clinical skills based upon her spelling ability. The two are not necessarily linked to each other. I could critically analyze some of your sentences and wonder if they are reflective of your clinical skills--lack of commas, the word but is a conjunction and its use usually mandates a comma before, use of I twice within a sentence and separated by the word and (redundant), subject-verb agreement (...these... states that allows... ), the correct use of "...", incorrect word usage--...about what good grades... ("the" would have been a much better choice than what), a run-on sentence, etc. ad nauseum. To call another person stupid--wow. I'm somewhat surprised the moderator let that one fly without a comment to the effect of being less personal and or that each is allowed their own opinion. When you launch into personal tirades, keep in mind your comments become public record for to judge. None of us are perfect, some more painfully so than others. My response is not intended as a rebuke, but as a point to consider. However, if you fail to undersatand the gist and feel obligated to respond as previously, well... bring it on. Hopefully you won't. Hopefully, you'll consider my intention, its worth, and modify future actions.
For the record to one and all, I apologize for any grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. errors.

Sheri257 · May 11, 2004

Incidentally, since CPNE has been mentioned several times, I thought you guys might be interested in what the board had the say about that. Here are some quotes:

"CPNE is a weekend course, administered over two and a half days, with a limited number of patients involving only two areas of nursing (med-surg and peds.) The CPNE is not equivalent to the minimum education requirements for clinical practice under California law."

"Excelsior indicates it awards 8 units of credit which Excelsior translates to 360 clinical hours (3 hours per credit times 15 week semester.) The Board will not accept a two and a half day weekend course as equivalent to 360 hours of supervised clinical practice, no matter how many units Excelsior gives it students. CPNE is held over a weekend, not over a 15 week semester."

Regarding LVNs: "Because CPNE does not test all of the required areas, it cannot be substituted as challenging all areas and meeting the five required areas of clinical practice. Clinical courses cannot be challenged when students have not had the content. For example, advanced medical surgical nursing and psychiatric nursing are RN level courses and are not taught in California LVN programs."

Here's the link if you'd like to read more:

http://www.rn.ca.gov/pdf/brdmins%2012-03.pdf

BTW, since someone asked if they could opt into California from another state with the EC program, this document says the state nixed that option.

:coollook:

Ex130Load · May 11, 2004

NurseChick04,

I stand corrected and apologize. You did not call a person stupid, only labeled their comments as such. I stand by my remaining observations and recommendations.

Regarding Excelsior's English classes, perhaps you may want to locate the phone number to which you alluded. If you have previously completed their English classes, a refresher course might be of value. The word little only has two Ts. Please learn a little more about the use of commas and sentence fragments. Should we make assumptions regarding your clinical skills based upon writing abilities?

Taking offense to "...rude comments about a school that I am attending...," you are kidding, right?

I am not excited. I am a bit disappointed, but not surprisingly so.

If you feel compelled to respond again, you have the last word. I am finishing this chapter and moving to another. I hope the learning process has not flat lined.

I reciprocate by wishing you a nice day. I write that free of sarcasm, bitterness, or hostility. I hope you will take to heart what I've written today and previously. I further hope you will again consider my intention, its worth, and modify future actions.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · May 11, 2004

Chris- Lizz and I actually had a rather heated debate over that issue several months ago (Hi Lizz!). Guess who was one of the biggest pro-EC-banning spokespeople? Dr. Frye. He seems to enjoy the profits from his EC study materials, but doesn't trust enough in his own product to back it up in front of the BRN.

Dawn- Good to see you over here!

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · May 11, 2004

Forgot to mention something else that smells like a rat. There are several CPNE sites in CA run by their Nurse's Association. If the hospitals in CA don't trust EC grads, why in the world are they letting its students do the CPNE in their facilities on their patients???

Sheri257 · May 11, 2004

Hey Laura: Just out of curiousity, are you sure it's the same guy? Charles Frye, that is. I can't remember if we determined if it was actually the same guy or not.

As far as nursing associations, are you talking about CNA? That would be interesting since they were also quoted in the newspaper criticizing the EC program.

The law seems to be the biggest problem here. I don't see how anyone can expect a state agency to disregard state law and regulations, once this became an issue. That's a tough argument to make, regardless of the circumstances.

Just an observation.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · May 11, 2004

Lizz-

Yes, it's the same Charles Frye- he sells EC study materials for the Nursing Concepts courses, as well as for the CPNE. I'll have to do a search and find the web address for his study materials.

As for the CPNE test sites in CA, I just looked them up. I'm taking it in Atlanta, GA and have called the administration office there several times- it's actually the GA Nurse's Assoc. office. I could be wrong about the same thing being true for CA. The CPNE test sites in CA are in hospitals in Long Beach, San Diego, and Orange, CA. People are still scheduling at those sites, so they're not planning on withdrawing any time soon from what I can tell. It seems that some CA hospitals have no problem with EC nursing students caring for their pts, although the CPNE is supervised. I guess it's a different story once they become graduates?