Euthanasia/Spirituality - page 10
I am a member of this board, but rarely post. I have a few questions that I would like to ask. How many of you believe in Physician Assisted Suicide? I believe that a patient should have that right... Read More
Aug 26, '02RNcountry....my hubby is a hospice executive director and an RN and hospice is a caring, loving, compassionate service. My family used hospice for my grandmother and father.
Aug 26, '02When my mother in law was dying of lung cancer, we used hospice. She was in Florida or I would have taken care of her too. Her care was wonderful, a great comfort for the daughters in Florida and for the family here who could not go and stay in Florida. The hospice nurse was wonderful about calling and letting the children here know that she felt death was imminent so they could get to Florida. She died 30 minutes after the last child got there. I believe she was waiting for him.
I just think that too many times neither physicians or nurses offer hospice as an option early enough. And in my rural area the availability is sometimes limited. Hospice was offered for Sam, but I felt that by taking care of her I could also give something to my husband, as well as Samantha. I could give him a peace of mind that strangers may not have been able to give. And I was able to offer hands on loving care that her mother simply could not do. I think her emotional pain for herself and for her daughter made her withdraw into her own world at the time. I did have trouble understanding it myself for a time, but then who am I to judge? I never had a child that was ill from the get go or had to deal with that everyday for 15 years. And I never had to watch my own flesh and blood child die. God willing I never will.
My aunt was a hospice nurse for a number of years, 10 I believe. It is a wonderful organization, just not utilitized as much as it could be I think. I am glad to see more focus on pain control in the general healthcare field too. I hope as time goes on it will be focused on even more.
Aug 26, '02Val, although scientists say they have proven this I don't believe them. I firmly believe that when patients say they were out of there bodies, they were having an OBE. I am a spiritual person and have had, what some would say, unexplainable experiences. I have had these experiences so therefor I believe.
I think that people who have had such experiences are more apt to believe than those who haven't.
That's just my opinion though.
Aug 26, '02Unfortunately so many times people are referred to hospice to late in their dying phase. They could do so much more for the patient and family if they had more time.
Aug 26, '02donmurray, I agree that there are some quacks out there when it comes to mediums, but I have to say that, imo, John Edward is the real thing. I think some people are afraid of the unknown.
I mean how can one, such as John Edward, read a total stranger whom he nor his staff have ever met? And how can he be so accurate with these people. I mean he tells them things that no one whould ever know except for the person that he is reading.
And that guy who has the "Skeptic Magazine", he is really closed minded. I have seen him on tv, and have read an issue of his magazine. He is just one of those people who need proof.
And ghosts, he doesn't believe in them either. Well I beg to differ, because once we pass on we will all become ghosts/spirits. I guess he will figure that out when he passes away.
Aug 26, '02well, i know many disagree with me, but as an oncology nurse who also lives in the state of oregon~(which is the only state in the country where assissted suicide is legal) i definitely hold dearly the ability to choose the timing of death if that ever becomes necessary for me. my friends and family know how i feel, my doc knows how i feel, and though they dont all agree, they do respect my choice. death can be considered "imminent" as in , occuring that day, however, some people, many who have been patients of mine, choose to give up a few days of breathing in return for an end to life in their terms, while they are still able to say goodbye, or remain lucid enough to derive pleasure from the plans they have made. for myself, i want to be able to hear the music i love, smell the scents i treasure, feel the soothing weight and comfort from a beloved quilt,and behold my family in a semi alert state of mind. i choose to orchestrate the surroundings so that i can make it as wonderful as possible, as easy as possible, for the ones left here to continue on, knowing that it was the way i wanted it to be. this is, by far, the same general outlook the patients i have taken care of, who later chose this route, felt.
as far as the state law re: asst. suicide, many thousands have asked about it, and several hundred have the prescriptions, very few actually use them, average is ~30/year. read the studies, you'll find most concerns are addressed-i.e. education, financial status, etc. as not being valid opposition for people who think that we will end up selectively killing people who "dont fit" as far as that goes, i dont "fit", so i would be one of the first, but it's just not a realistic concern.
thanks for letting me put my 2 cents in....
Aug 26, '02I often thought that Euthanasia was just morally wrong until my father was diagnoised with a terminal disease.Over the years of watching him suffer and struggle with every breath,I have changed my veiw.There is nothing that could hurt more than having your father look you in the eyes and beg to die.I feel a person should that right to say 'I have had enough',I truly believe Quality of life out weighs Quanity.
Sep 3, '02I have had much personal experience with this subject, I have lost both my parents to cancer at relatively young ages. My father had renal cell, mets to lung, and my mother had billiary duct CA. I also worked for several years on a medical unit that provided hospice care. Due to these experiences, I would say that for years, I was a rabid proponent of active assisted suicide for the terminally ill. There are many safeguards that can be used to prevent abuse.
The Netherlands has a very good law in place that is worth viewing. It has many protections against abuse, to include multiple reviews by several physician prior to granting the request. I have also looked at Oregon's law, it has a lot of similar qualites, and I find it comforting to know that intelligent compassionate people have worked so hard to increase quality of life for end stage terminal illnesses.
All the above being said, within the last year, I have done more research. I have discovered that in our society we chronically undertreat pain, for fear of addiction, abuse, legal issue of hastening death...etc. It is worth noting that the ANA has taken a position on administration of increasing dosages of pain medication for the terminally ill. In essence they have stated that increasing levels of pain medication should be given AS NEEDED to relieve pain in end stage terminal illness. With the recognition that a side effect of relieving the pain may hasten the patients death. This is appropriate therapy, as long as the PURPOSE is to relieve pain, and not to cause death. The AMA has a similar position. It is also worth noting, that no nurse or physician has been successfully sued for relieving a patients pain, with the possibility of hastening death, BUT a Nurse has been successfully sued for not relieving pain in a terminally ill patient, her feeling was that the ordered dose was too high, and would hasten death, the family sued successfully citing that she had increased the patients suffering by not giving prescribed meds....the patient had been on the dose prescribed prior to her care.
All of that being said, once again back to treatment of pain. Aggressive pain therapy should be of primary consideration in end stage care. Studies have been done to show that a patient in unrelenting pain is more likely to request assisted suicide (DUH), but when pain is treated appropriately, quality of life is increased and incidences of requests for assisted suicide drop to something like less than 5%, even in the face of imminent death...i.e. days, hours.
So perhaps instead of the soapbox that I used to be on concerning assisted suicide, I have changed to a soapbox of appropriate pain management. I don't think I am against assisted euthanasia, I simply feel that prior to that we should ensure that we have done EVERYTHING possible to make the patient comfortable. This may include making us a little UNCOMFORTABLE, by the fear that we hastened a patients death by giving narcotics....hard, but if we are truly patient's advocates, and not seeking to CAUSE death, but to relieve pain and provide comfort, we have given appropriate care. So the patient with resps of <10 that appeared to be in pain should have been given pain medication, to provide relief...bottom line.
Sep 3, '02very well spoken and obviously researched, idymedic
pain control even in non terminal patients is still an issue individually on the floors
but to not give pain relief to someone in such dire pain in the end stage of a terminal illness......
yes, you make such a point of our own discomfort......
area of growth professionally.....
Sep 3, '02I still think that if someone told me I was dying and chemo and radiation did not help and I was not in pain I would want someone to help me die quickly before I was in pain and before my family would watch me wither away to a skeleton. I watched both my grandmother and father die at a weight below 70 pounds. My dad wanted someone to help him die much earlier.
Sep 3, '02Very well said ldymedc! Do you think they would increase the dosage if they had to sit at the bedside and watch another human being die a slow agonizing death? I'm all for agressive pain therapy in end-stage terminal illness. Thanks for the interesting comments....
Sep 3, '02Im reading all these posts that are pro-physician assissted euthansia,active eithansia. Why the hell isnt it legal in every state of the union. Its immoral,criminal and cruel that its not.
Sep 3, '02ohbet, hi there. Long time no talk. he-he
Uhm, I don't know, but I think it should be legal in every state.
As stated before it is the patient who should decide what is best for them, not the government.
Just this evening in my Phlebotomy class we got off the subject and started talking about how people get treated when they are admitted to a nursing home. It is inhumane, and I sure as he$$ don't want to live out the remainder of my life in such a place.
Just my opinion though. Talk to ya later. Belle