Ethics Violation-Would you remain silent or challenge the system? - page 11

Today I was labeled a "whistleblower and tattletail because I, along with numerous other students, witnessed a table of individuals cheating on an exam in our Anatomy and Physiology class which is a... Read More

  1. by   EmerNurse
    This thread has gotten painful to read LOL...

    I DO remember folks in nsg school cheating, I remember it being reported and nothing done about it, and I remember how annoyed were those of us who put aside other life things in order to study hard and take tests without cheating. Sure does leave a sour taste when you bust your butt, read those pages and pages of tedious text books, and get a B, when you watch the cheater get an A and get away with it.

    But if the cheating is reported, and nothing is done because the instructor "didn't witness it directly", what ya gonna do. Study hard, pass nsg school and be the best nurse you can be. Cheaters don't answer to me, in the long run. <sigh>

    And on the question of admissions - the one who worked hard and passed withOUT cheating should get in. Does that mean they will? Nope. Sad, that.
  2. by   donsterRN
    Quote from reebok
    Who should get in?
    Atheist: Who ever is luck enough?
    CHristian: Whom ever has God's favor?

    So if your not a christian, you may be atheist. If your not lucky you wont get in. So therefore the denied applicant may be an unlucky atheist. Life is not fair. I cant really describe it. Just read the post I posted before that one.

    Sir, your posts have veered so far off topic and off point that it is impossible to engage in literate, intelligent debate.

    The OP posted that she reported a cheater and was threatened physically.

    You responded by making an accusation that she reported the cheaters in order to get them expelled, thereby increasing her chances of admission.

    You followed up with various posts that stated unequivocally that you were right and everyone who disagreed with you was wrong, admonishments for everyone to get off his or her high horse, and finally a disjointed discourse that mentions Christianity, Atheism, The Tony's and The Oscar's.

    What you don't seem to understand is that most people here believe in the concept of right and wrong. Cheating is wrong. Reporting it is right. Whatever your personal belief system is, this would have been covered in an Ethics course, which I assume you took as a graduate of a BSN program.

    As far as I'm concerned, this thread has denigrated into one of the most ridiculous and idiotic threads ever posted, and it's certainly not worth my energy to read and respond further.

    Carry on.
    Last edit by donsterRN on Nov 18, '06
  3. by   TrudyRN
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    Hey, not to change the subject, but here is an extreme example of how people just don't want to get involved and it made my physically ill.

    Anyone live in Florida and hear about the boat that sank and they just retrieved the bodies of an 8-year-old and 2-year-old-baby off the boat...dead?

    Well, I just listened to the 911 call that was on local6.com - Home. The husband escaped the boat first with is 3 MONTH OLD baby...was standing, baby naked, at a fence, screaming at houses for someone to help him...one resident called 911 and say there was a man standing with a small naked baby and was screaming for help...said something about a boat sinking in deep water...the 911 operator said, "Do you know if anyone is still on the boat?" The caller said, "No, I don't know." The 911 operator said, "Well, can you go ASK HIM!". So you hear this woman yell out the window to ask and and you can hear the man say his 8 year old and 2 year old were on the boat and sank with it. You hear the 911 Operator call out to someone to send an ambulance and search team. Now HERE is the kicker.

    THE STUPID WOMAN THAT CALLED 911 SAID, "Oh, when you send the ambulance out here, tell them not to turn on their siren's because I just got my kids to sleep and don't want to wake them up!"

    She was more concerned about her kids getting woke up than a man that just lost half his family to drowning.

    THAT is the problem with American folks...

    ...to add...just this week, at night on a busy road, I watched no less than 50 to 100 cars pass by a horribly ditched truck...I stopped to make sure no one was inside it, and it was empty....what if there was a child inside? What if someone was hurt? I did this same thing about 8 years ago...I looked in to see the hood pulled down over this man's head, and his hands curled under, and he couldn't speak...again, busy road, ditched car...no one stopped...I refused to leave him until the ambulance got there and kept talking to him.

    People need to fix what is wrong when the opportunity presents itself!

    There are plenty of wonderful, wonderful Americans. There are also plenty of not so wonderful from any country you care to name.

    As for the siren - I don't blame her. She did help, she did what she could. Maybe the caller had to get to sleep so she could get up super early and go to work to support her sleeping children.
    Last edit by VickyRN on Nov 18, '06 : Reason: TOS
  4. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from Don3218
    Sir, your posts have veered so far off topic and off point that it is impossible to engage in literate, intelligent debate.

    The OP posted that she reported a cheater and was threatened physically.

    You responded by making an accusation that she reported the cheaters in order to get them expelled, thereby increasing her chances of admission.

    You followed up with various posts that stated unequivocally that you were right and everyone who disagreed with you was wrong, admonishments for everyone to get off his or her high horse, and finally a disjointed discourse that mentions Christianity, Atheism, The Tony's and The Oscar's.

    What you don't seem to understand is that most people here believe in the concept of right and wrong. Cheating is wrong. Reporting it is right. Whatever your personal belief system is, this would have been covered in an Ethics course, which I assume you took as a graduate of a BSN program.

    As far as I'm concerned, this thread has denigrated into one of the most ridiculous and idiotic threads ever posted, and it's certainly not worth my energy to read and respond further.

    Carry on.

    Saaaaaame here.
  5. by   kenny b
    Quote from reebok
    I meant to put that nursing school would weed out Habitual cheaters.
    Now that you've changed the whole argument around I am going to have to think harder. Let's see, we're not dealing with ethics but survival of the program. I guess I can just pick my face up off the floor or get my foot out of my mouth. This takes me back to my 1rst post. What was her motive for reporting the cheaters? She was jealous and tried to hide that emotion by using ethics as an excuse to seem chilvary-like.

    Bare with me b/c I think differently. This argument may never hold up in the court of law but this is what I believe.

    Who should get into the last available slots?
    atheist: Who ever is lucky enough to get chosen?
    Christian: (that's me) Whom ever has God's favor>

    This is how I see things? If you are doing your part God will acknowledge that and therefore you have nothing to worry about. If you have a close relationship w/ God &studied but still didn't get in. It's for your good. That means it wasn't your time, something bad could have happened, God has something else planned for your life,etc.
    Okay, got it.
    1) You can't possibly know her motive.
    2) If her motive was to insure that those who didn't cheat were able to compete on level ground with those who did, then that's valid.

    You see, it's a lot like the pilot slot requirements in the Air Force when I was in ROTC. Physical requirements were greater for males vs. females (more push-ups, pull-ups, etc.)
    Now when you're flying a taxpayers' million-dollar plane around and you're trying to out G someone so that it doesn't get blown out of the sky, upper body strength matters, not gender, not genetics, and not disadvantaged backgrounds. So why two standards.

    So, yes, the prereqs matter. Yes a knowledge of Biology and A&P are important. And, yes, the person who demonstrates the greatest knowledge of these things should receive the highest score for that weighting in the admissions consideration. Just like pilots.

    When I was in college ROTC, I borrowed a formula worksheet for the final from a classmate who was an ROTC cadet because mine was misplaced.

    It had a copy of the entire test with fully worked out problems!

    In spite of the fact that he was nice enough to loan me his formula worksheet, I walked out of the room and turned him in to the cadre immediately. Then I got to take the test with no formula worksheet (my own fault) and get a lower score than I would have with my own worksheet.

    I did it and I'd do it again. I did it not because there were people who had spent their entire lives preparing to compete for pilot slots and deserved them more than he. I did it because he wasn't qualified to be trusted with a 20-million-dollar plane because of his problems with cheating and his failure to meet the requirements as they were laid out.

    It really is all about who will be the best. Since we can't know for sure who will be the best nurse, we have to apply the best measuring stick we can -- and apply it evenly without regard for background, etc. The job is too important to do anything less. And if nursing school would have weeded the cheaters out, so what? It still has the potential for delaying other more qualified students.

    As for the Christianity argument, I don't get it. The athiest might say that he wants the most honest, knowledgeable nurse. The Christian might say that God helps those who help themselves.

    By the way, the richest people still pay the most taxes.

    Have a nice day! (I really mean that)
  6. by   VickyRN
    Quote from kenny b

    It really is all about who will be the best. Since we can't know for sure who will be the best nurse, we have to apply the best measuring stick we can -- and apply it evenly without regard for background, etc. The job is too important to do anything less. And if nursing school would have weeded the cheaters out, so what? It still has the potential for delaying other more qualified students.
    :yeahthat:
  7. by   Nursing in 09
    You did the right thing. Now go to the director of the nursing program. A lame teacher is a bad deal especially for A&P. that was pathetic handling on his part. I am a firdt semester nursing student and know very well how much we use what we learned in A&P. These students do not deserve any degree especially an RN degree. They are a waste of space and should not be admitted to a program. Nurses need ethics and these people obviously lack them. I know at my school the DON is very involved in A&P, micro and what goes on in the prereqs. It affects the success of her nursing students. I hope the teacher is fired. Some teachers think I have tenior" and they can do anything. GOOD LUCK also report the harrassment, to school and possibly police.:Crash: :Crash: our profession doesn't need the embarrassment of such pathetic people.
  8. by   eltrip
    Quote from reebok
    I am glad to see that inspite of your trials/tribulations youve managed to keep yourself in the right direction. This isn't the Tonys or Oscars so I guess your reward is in heaven.
    This amounts to time,a waste of energy and money. Whose time, energy, and money is it wasting? Certainly not yours. Cheating increases their odds of failing the board exams. Does it increase your odds of failing the exam as well. No! So why are you worried about it?
    Ge
    With the nursing shortage that began 8 years ago and only looks to be worsening, every nurse that can pass the boards is essential. Thus, my concern about the waste of time & resources.
  9. by   ceecel.dee
    Integrity always wins in my book.
  10. by   firstyearstudent
    Reebok,

    You sound more like a nihilist than a Christian.
  11. by   bosch
    As a very seasoned nurse, I am honored to have you join our profession.
    I have in my past bucked the system--and am proud of it.
    Never let anyone diminish your values and ethics.
    You will be a great nurse and hopefully a leader in the nursing field.
    We need more nurse leaders with backbones to keep this profession a true profession. I am very discontent when I see the caliber of nurses that are being allowed to graduate. Scary for you and me when we need medical attention!! Good Luck.
  12. by   RaElrA
    Quote from MissJanelle904
    Today I was labeled a "whistleblower and tattletail because I, along with numerous other students, witnessed a table of individuals cheating on an exam in our Anatomy and Physiology class which is a major pre-req into entrance into the nursing program. One of the individuals completed the exam and recieved it back, and took the test back to the table where she distributed all the correct answers to them, in which they in turn proceeded to change all their previous answers. In absolute boldness, one of the girls said quite loudly, "what is the answer to the last one?", and the first individual read off the answers to her. The proffessor does not proctor the exams. He simply hands them out and grades them as soon as you complete them, and then hands them back with the right answers corrected in. He does not wait until each student has completed the exam to pass out the results. Nor does he cruise the classroom to make sure that everyone is done before begining a new lecture. I felt that this was a major loophole that obviously a table of students had taken advantage of. In his syllabus he states that SUSPICION of cheating will result in failure of the exams.

    Because at least 15 other students witnessed the cheating as well, we held a brief meeting about the issue and I told them I would address the professor since I was sitting next to the students and saw the entire situation. After class myself and another student asked to speak to the professor in confidentiality. The accussed students had caught wind earlier that they were going to be outted and had actually stuck around in the classroom to see who the individuals were. After they left, I told the proffessor what I and the other students had witnessed. He shrugged his shoulders nonchalantly and told me there was nothing he could do since he didn't see it happening and that next time I would have to tell him while it is happening. He also stated "and if they cheated on the last exam it didn't help them much because they made a 55". They recieved a 98 (which is an A) on today's test that they cheated on. The proffessor regarded me with an "I could careless" attitude and proceeded to pack his things. He did not ask me any questions about who else was involved, raised no concern that he is passing CHEATING students with an A into a highly competitive medical program who are in direct violation of the Colleges Code of Ethics. As I left with the other student, we noticed that the accused were actually waiting on us to leave and procceeded to follow us and threaten us for telling on them. They cautioned that I had better mind my own business and continued with verbal harrassment to the point I had to use profanity to stop them from FOLLOWING ME TO MY CAR. This incident has been brought to the proffessors attention by more than one occasion and he has not taken any steps in changing the testing process.

    There is going to be a pending investigation involving the students and the facult member who is now KNOWINGLY aiding them in their attempts to fraud the system. Nursing is a limited access program and is based solely on a point based system. Only sixty of 250 students are admitted each fall and to think that a group of UNQUALIFIED individuals are cheating their way to an open slot is a dissapointment to the College's Mission Statement. We do NOT NEED THESE TYPES OF PEOPLE IN CHARGE OF THE PUBLIC'S HEALTH! These are not leaders, these are not nurses. How would you feel if the doctor who was about to diagnose you had cheated is way through medical school? We have got to crack down on academic dishonesty and stop allowing it to continue because it's easy to turn the other cheek. How would you feel if you sacrificed work and family to dedicate yourself into getting into the nursing program, only to find out that there weren't enough slots, and the people who got in CHEATED their way in.

    I am sorry for the detail but it is the only way to explain the severity of the situation. As professionals in the field who have worked very hard to get where you are, what would you have done?
    You absolutely did the right thing! I have been in similar situations twice (not in nursing school) and have done the same thing. Once, I even went undercover with the NICB to take down my boss (an attorney). I hated it, but it was the right thing to do. Years later, I witnessed my best friend (oh, yeah) commiting felony embezzlement and state licensing fraud. This was even harder, but I reported her as well. I was severely criticized by other friends--sides were taken and no one took mine. I could not believe that people would overlook felonies because a friend was committing them. Anyway, do not beat yourself up. If more people exhibited your reaction, we would have less cheating. If the threats continue, put a restraining order on their ____! You just may have kept incompetent nurses from entering the field, thereby saving a future life. You go.
  13. by   augigi
    Put this in writing to the head of your nursing school, including details and names of the witnesses. Keep a copy. Keep going higher with this until someone does something!

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