confused over titles !!

ClariceS · Nov 16, 2000

Tina,

Let me attempt at an explanation.

MSN = Master of Science in Nursing. People with this degree are usually in management, teaching positions or nurse practitioner roles. (Nurse practitioners are similar to physician assistants.)

BSN = Bachelor of Science in Nursing. These nurses are often bedside RN's but with the extra schooling are often in management roles also.

RN = Registered Nurse. These people have a diploma or associates degree in nursing. This comprises most of the bedside RN's. They are also used as charge nurses for their unit of the hospital.

Now it gets a little confusing:

LVN/LPN = These are Licensed Vocational nurses. They attend school for approximately one year learning basic nursing skills. They don't recieve the critical thinking skill teaching that RN's or above get. Depending on what state they work in, they have roles differing from something near to what RN's do with bedside nursing to activities closer to what a nurse aide does.

CNA/NA/PCA = These are nurse aides or unlicensed personnel. Some are certified and some are given technical skill training in certain tasks to be a patient care assistant.

This may have just made your confusion worse! I hope it helps a little!

Tina Harrington, BSN, RN · Nov 16, 2000

Originally posted by ClariceS:
Tina,
Let me attempt at an explanation.
MSN = Master of Science in Nursing. People with this degree are usually in management, teaching positions or nurse practitioner roles. (Nurse practitioners are similar to physician assistants.)
BSN = Bachelor of Science in Nursing. These nurses are often bedside RN's but with the extra schooling are often in management roles also.
RN = Registered Nurse. These people have a diploma or associates degree in nursing. This comprises most of the bedside RN's. They are also used as charge nurses for their unit of the hospital.
Now it gets a little confusing:
LVN/LPN = These are Licensed Vocational nurses. They attend school for approximately one year learning basic nursing skills. They don't recieve the critical thinking skill teaching that RN's or above get. Depending on what state they work in, they have roles differing from something near to what RN's do with bedside nursing to activities closer to what a nurse aide does.
CNA/NA/PCA = These are nurse aides or unlicensed personnel. Some are certified and some are given technical skill training in certain tasks to be a patient care assistant.

This may have just made your confusion worse! I hope it helps a little!

Thanx Clarice, LOL, OMG!! how do you all cope ?? Doubt if I will be able to understand the postings from USA nurses, ever, regarding gripes with co workers,

You all have my admiration working with so many job specs... thanx again from the UK ~~~> still

LOL

iris · Nov 17, 2000

GET REAL!!!!

LPN/LVN...."WE DON'T RECEIVE THE CRITICAL NSG SKILL TEACHING THE RN'S DO- AND, WE'RE ONLY TAUGHT BASIC NURSING SKILLS." HUMMMMM...I MUST OF BEEN IN THE WRONG CLASSROOM.

YOU SILLY RN....

Tina Harrington, BSN, RN · Nov 17, 2000

[OOPPSS... I seem to have caused an argument with my query here.... but is it any wonder with all those differing qualifications !!! you must all get really pissed off with everyones different interpretations of your training & responsibilities !!!

ClariceS · Nov 17, 2000

NO offence meant iris! I have taught both LVN's and RN's. RN's do have longer training including more case study work toward critical thinking skills. I am not saying that my LVN's haven't developed those skills (some better than RN's) through their experience time.

Didn't mean to start off anything. Just trying to explain some differences!

Genista, BSN, RN · Nov 18, 2000

Don't forget that there are also nurses with their doctorate in nursing! ;-)

Nurses w/ PhDs in Nursing can be found in: management,teaching,research,advanced practice,even at the bedside.

Tim-GNP · Nov 18, 2000

Actually, a nurse practitioner is not 'similar' to a physician's assistant at all [if you are basing your statement on the ability to write prescriptions, just remember that prescriptive privileges are but a very small part of the nurse practitioner's role]. Depending upon state of practice, many N.P.'s have independent practice. P.A.'s, regardless of the state in which they practice, are always required to have a supervising pysician.

Another role forgotten is that of the clinical nurse specialist [C.N.S.] this is another type of advanced practice registered nurse [A.P.R.N.]. They perform many of the same functions as the N.P. [depending upon state licensure regulations, etc., they may even write prescriptions]. Their focus, however, tends to be more on education, consultation and administration, in addition to practice.

All of the 'titles' are confusing, I agree, and it has led to the problem of nursing being taken as seriously by other professions as it should be. If you want to be a physician, you go 4 years to college, 4 years to medical school, and do a prescribed number of years in residency... end of debate. Here in the U.S.A., a nurse can become an LPN/LVN or an ADN or a Diploma RN or obtain a BSN, when last I heard, there are even one or two programs out there that give an MSN as the basic practice degree [upon conferring the MSN, the individual is eligible for licensure as an RN]. Some programs even give DNS [doctorate of nursing science] for people who have doctoral degrees in other subjects and wish to become RN's.

Hopefully, one day, nursing will get it's act together educationally. I doubt it will happen in my lifetime, but hopefully some day...

ClariceS · Nov 20, 2000

Tina,

Sure gets confusing doesn't it?!?!?!?

Tina Harrington, BSN, RN · Nov 20, 2000

Oh my !!! We in the UK also have specialist nurses, ie: Nurse Practitioners, clinicians, practice nurses etc, but they are all RGN's,

Our nursing aides are encouraged to take the NVQ, (National Vocational Qualification) but they are not recompensed in terms of salary!! nor do they have a governing body, you seem to have a whole alphabet of qualifications.. yes Clarice it is very confusing LOL.

jdewkz · Nov 20, 2000

In response to Tim's email regarding non nursing degrees. There are a number of programs now all across the US that offer MSN programs for people with non nursing BA/BS degrees and w/o a RN. I never thought these programs would have existed but obviously someone thought there was a need for them. 4 colleges in California offer the degree as well as a bunch in NY, Yale, University of Texas at Austin, Vanderbilt, and John Hopkins.

These programs are around and appear to be quite controversial and frowned down upon on these message boards. These programs range from 2.5 -3 years long. The first year or so you do all your preparation for your RN exam(like a condensed BSN program) and then the rest of thr program is spent working on your concentration and your Masters. Are there programs like this in the UK?

Tina Harrington, BSN, RN · Nov 21, 2000

Hi, Well you can do any of these courses in the UK, You can go directly into a degree course in Health studies - RGN BSC, or the diploma course - RGN Dip HE, we used to be able to do just a 3yr RGN course,then once you have gained the RGN course you can go on to study at any level, but with the advent of PK200, I'm pretty sure that the RGN course is now all at diploma level, The students are not trained as we once were ie: Good nursing care, diseases, intervention, and spending most of our training in the clinical area. The PK200 students spend the first year in college now and very little time is spent in the clinical area throughout their 3 yrs They do alot of phsycology and theory.. It has now been found that thay are not clinically competent on qualifying and therefore perceptorship programmes are in force, This September was the first intake of the new curriculum.. The common foundation programme is now almost all spent in the prctice area again !!! There are so many changes and have been for the last 7 - 8 yrs and no doubt more to come !!! but still I think this is less confusing than all the different levels of training that seem to go on in the USA.