CNA's passing meds

Agnus · Oct 12, 2002

Nurse K,

I hope you go back an reread the end of my post. I was apparently doing a final edit on it when you responded. (we crossed in the mail so to speak) I repeat you or your facility may not see these as throw away but society does and that is what allows for short cuts that would not otherwise be allowed.

The SBON is set up to protect the consumer. Some BONs are consumer run. The general consumer represents society.

In NV the BON is nurse run. No unlicensed non nurses administer meds. period.

I am not faulting you or a well run facility. Health care cost being what they are calls for a lot of very difficult decisions today.

NrseK · Oct 12, 2002

Yep, it looks as though we "crossed in the mail":roll !!! I agree, lots and lots of VERY difficult decisions are having to be made these days. We can but do our very best, in our own little corner of the world, to care for everyone within our charge with all of the love, concern and compassion that we would like for ourselves or our loved ones Including each other!:kiss

Agnus · Oct 12, 2002

Yea, I am glad I don't have to solve the world's problems. Then again... Nah.

Vsummer1 · Oct 12, 2002

Our textbook, Mosby's Pharm in Nursing, states (page 26):

"For a long period in health care history, drug administration was a function of physicians only. In fact, nurses were kept ignorant of the medications the client might be receiving. Gradually, medication administration has become an interdependent function. "

**Seems the doctors were having this argument years and years ago except it was should NURSES be giving meds? LOL!! see how things come full circle??

It also states that 3 conditions s/b met before a nurse may legally begin to administer meds my any mode:

1) the medication order must be valid

2) the physician/prescriber and the nurse must be licensed

3) the nurse must know the purpose, actions, effects and major side effects and toxic effects of the drug, as well as the teaching required to enable the client or caregiver to self-admister the drug safely and accurately.

IF THE CMA CAN DO ALL OF THAT (SEE #2 ABOVE) THEN OKAY. But I am a student now, working hard to get my license. I don't think I am willing to risk the license (once I get it!) so soon. If the person I was delegating to was licensed then it wouldn't be an issue for me would it? It would then be their license NOT mine. I guess we shall see when I finally pass the NCLEX! Who knows by then I may have more information on which to base my decision.

winterstorm · Feb 21, 2006

Hello,

I am new to this forum and do not know where to turn to ask this question...I really hope that you don't mind me asking this question here....I am a cna in nyc and am trying to take a medication technican course here, however i do not know how to go about this..I know the course was offered in tx where I originally got my license from (where you had to have a job first in order to take the course first, is that also true anywhere else?) does anyone know of a place in nyc that offers this class that is accredited, that isn't a just an out to get your money place? I originally took my cna class in nyc at mandl in the city and didn't feel the least bit ready for my clinicals (after dishing my 900+ dollars out and going for 3 mos) only to go to tx and pay 325 for 4 weeks and pass on the first try...so you see it's not the money it's just the quality of the course...so if anyone can please help me i would appreciate it greatly..thank you!

KuteNurse, LPN · Feb 21, 2006

I do not believe CNA's can pass meds in Minnesota. Hopefully this will not happen because I am an LPN and it might just put my job in jeopardy! lol

LPN1974, LPN · Feb 21, 2006

I do not believe CNA's can pass meds in Minnesota. Hopefully this will not happen because I am an LPN and it might just put my job in jeopardy! lol

I think she said she is a cna in nyc.

MultipurposeRN · Feb 21, 2006

Forgive me..I haven't read all the posts.

On some of the floors where I work, and LPN routinely passes meds for the whole floor. Sometimes there are 32 really sick patients. No matter how good the nurse, are they going to be able to fully evaluate that many patients and pass their meds? I think the arguements against CMT's are valid, but I agree that a well trained CMT w/ common sense being able to handle routine meds in a setting where there's probably not many med changes. They would get to know the residents well and notice any changes in them, just as a good CNA would. You might as well say you're not trusting your baths to a CNA because they might miss the beginning of a pressure ulcer. Well, go ahead and try to do total care on 8-10 patients, including their vitals, baths, and meds! Many are forced to in hospitals dt staffing, and don't think mistakes aren't made and things missed by licensed staff. I've missed or been late with more than a few meds in my career trying to take care of a team and do my own meds, while dealing w/ a patient or two going down hill, a doctor/family w/ questions, or some other interruption.

MultipurposeRN · Feb 21, 2006

1) the medication order must be valid

2) the physician/prescriber and the nurse must be licensed

3) the nurse must know the purpose, actions, effects and major side effects and toxic effects of the drug, as well as the teaching required to enable the client or caregiver to self-admister the drug safely and accurately.

Now honestly..can we all say that we ALWAYS know #3 completely when trying to give all our meds?

Spritenurse1210, BSN, RN · Feb 22, 2006

As a cna, i was put in a situation where the nurse, ORDERED me to give a patient meds. i was so scared i did it anyway thinking she would report me. i would not want to be responsible for medication considering i know next to nothing about them. i applied once to an assisted living facility who did not use nurses at all with the exception of one rn who came in once a month. i didnt realize this until i went to the interview! needless to say i did NOT except the offer of employment

soulfullady · Feb 22, 2006

How DOES one get their voice heard in the nursing profession, so that incidents like those stated above do not happen? I am very interested in voicing my opinion to a committee and getting other people involved, but have no idea where to start. I just passed LPN boards two weeks ago today, so I am very new to all of the politics involved, but we can't just sit there and let this happen!!! In colorado, I have heard that LPN's are going to become a thing of the past, and it just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.(I have no idea on the time frame, but this year is the last year the community colleges are offering the one year LPN program. They are strictly going with the two year RN program with the option of taking boards after the first year.) Anyways, it upsets me too...anyone have any ideas on where to start to get your voice heard, as well as your colleagues? :uhoh3:

LPN1974, LPN · Feb 22, 2006

How DOES one get their voice heard in the nursing profession, so that incidents like those stated above do not happen? I am very interested in voicing my opinion to a committee and getting other people involved, but have no idea where to start. I just passed LPN boards two weeks ago today, so I am very new to all of the politics involved, but we can't just sit there and let this happen!!! In colorado, I have heard that LPN's are going to become a thing of the past, and it just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.(I have no idea on the time frame, but this year is the last year the community colleges are offering the one year LPN program. They are strictly going with the two year RN program with the option of taking boards after the first year.) Anyways, it upsets me too...anyone have any ideas on where to start to get your voice heard, as well as your colleagues?

Your State Representatives?

Maybe you need some kind of documentation, a brief report or whatever, that you could send them, to show what the future trend is going to be, and ask that they do not support the elimination of LPNs.

That seems like a good place to start.

I know in Arkansas, that a bill was brought up before the legislature in support of certified medication aides in certain areas, under the supervision of a nurse {yeah right, don't get me started on THAT one} but the bill did pass. It was also presented to the SBON for AR, and one of our distinguished board members, {an RN} of whose name I shall not say, was in support of the bill for cma's, and she made the statement, "It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put pills in a cup and give them to a resident." I read that quote myself in the Arkansas Democrat newspaper.