CNA issue~can anyone advise? - page 2

Let me be clear, first of all, 90% of the CNA's I work with are worth their weight in gold, and I am in no way slamming them. I am a LPN who works night shift in LTC. I have a very difficult CNA... Read More

  1. by   wonderbee
    That kind of behavior should not be tolerated. If she talks to you that way, imagine how she talks to the patients. I don't work in LTC but I function as a tech on a med/surg floor. I have also floated to other floors. Never have I seen such unprofessional behavior as you describe. Not even close. That one would be fired. Now that she's shown her true colors, you have no choice but to follow up with the nurse manager to have her fired. Alternatively, if that's tolerable behavior, I'd find another place to work.
  2. by   GPatty
    Quote from RNKittyKat
    That kind of behavior should not be tolerated. If she talks to you that way, imagine how she talks to the patients. I don't work in LTC but I function as a tech on a med/surg floor. I have also floated to other floors. Never have I seen such unprofessional behavior as you describe. Not even close. That one would be fired. Now that she's shown her true colors, you have no choice but to follow up with the nurse manager to have her fired. Alternatively, if that's tolerable behavior, I'd find another place to work.
    The scary part is that it's rumored she has done the same to the MDS Coordinator and only been written up.
    Wonder what all it's gonna take?
    All I know is that I don't want to go into work tomorrow cause I have to work with her and it'll be the same thing over again. I hope not, but I see it.... :stone
  3. by   mscsrjhm
    Just dealt with the same thing at a sub-acute unit in a LTC setting. 2nd shift CNAs telling me they would not get weights, taking 1 hour long lunches (employee of the month!), and yelling at me to mind my own business. I wrote up each incident (3), and left it to administration. Nothing was done, so I will not work there again. Luckily, I am agency. There own nurses get all of their own vitals- administration said that the CNAs cannot be trusted to get vitals!!
    Time to move on.
  4. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    "Of the 50 states, 38, as well as the District of Columbia, allow you to record a conversation to which you are a party without informing the other parties you are doing so. "

    The above was copy and pasted from "The First Amendment Handbook"

    http://www.rcfp.org/handbook/c03p01.html


    Remember Linda Tripp taping her conversations with Monica Lewinsky?

    She started doing this on her own, keeping her own personal records before the scandal broke. It was legal.

    You could do the same thing with this CNA.

    It is NOT illegal, if you are party to the conversation. The same is true for wiretapping.
    Last edit by Hellllllo Nurse on Jul 6, '04
  5. by   TBLPN
    I myself have encountered several CNA's who think they are in charge and run the floor. Going to the DON is not always effective. Keep documenting, keep a notebook with you and document everything, and keep writing her up. Unprofessional behavior has no place in LTC, or anywhere, but LTC seems to be overflowing with people wanting the money, but not working, or behaving badly and getting paid for it. Good CNA's are hard to find and I feel a lot of their inappropriate behavior is overlooked because help is hard to find (good help). Good Luck!!!!!
  6. by   OneRN
    I worked as a CNA in a LTC facility during my prereqs and Level 1. I was a good one, but some of the ones I worked with were just this side of convicts and gang members. It's a tradgedy what takes place in long term care. One guy (and I don't care if I get banned for saying this) got fired as a dishwasher for harrassing females during his shifts, went to another nursing home to get hired as a dishwasher. They said they didn't have any dishwashing positions so they hired him and trained him to be a CNA. Once he got his certification, he quit there, came back to my facility, and was promptly hired as a CNA (the same one he got fired from as a dishwasher). He wouldn't even wear the required scrubs, and he wore a doo rag nylon on his head. He would go into the demented pts rooms, turn on BET and eat potato chips and leave the wrapers (no pun intended) behind, and the TVs blaring BET. By his own admission he was a former "villan."

    Lovely, isn't it? LTC taught me only one thing: there is a fate worse than death.
  7. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    Quote from OneRN
    I worked as a CNA in a LTC facility during my prereqs and Level 1. I was a good one, but some of the ones I worked with were just this side of convicts and gang members. It's a tradgedy what takes place in long term care. One guy (and I don't care if I get banned for saying this) got fired as a dishwasher for harrassing females during his shifts, went to another nursing home to get hired as a dishwasher. They said they didn't have any dishwashing positions so they hired him and trained him to be a CNA. Once he got his certification, he quit there, came back to my facility, and was promptly hired as a CNA (the same one he got fired from as a dishwasher). He wouldn't even wear the required scrubs, and he wore a doo rag nylon on his head. He would go into the demented pts rooms, turn on BET and eat potato chips and leave the wrapers (no pun intended) behind, and the TVs blaring BET. By his own admission he was a former "villan."

    Lovely, isn't it? LTC taught me only one thing: there is a fate worse than death.

    I think I worked with this guy, too. And...some of his "possey."
  8. by   CHATSDALE
    about the tape recording these laws vary from state to state but it would not hurt as a back up in case you needed it.....i know a worker whose boss liked to belittle women and say absolutely vulgar language...he later said that "they liked it" the tape was sent to home office and the guy was fired i don't know if her co-workers knew who sent in the tape...she said that some of them said that you have to develop a tough skin or stay home..i hope that the next generation is better
  9. by   Worthy
    Good grief!

    After four weeks of LTC work, I DO NOT understand why some people get into this line of work. I mean, if you don't like people, why not just get a job at Wal-mart? The pay can't be much worse. It's mindless. Less physical work. Better hours.

    My biggest fear is getting old and being taken care of by some of the people I work with. They terrify me. They are "clique-y", rude, and uninspired to become anything more than what they are.

    They regard me with suspicion when they hear I am in nursing school. One girl showed repeated interest in my program. I brought her the course outline. She lost it. She then asked for the phone number of the college. I told her it was in the book. She didn't want to take the time to get it, asked I bring it to her. For Gawd's sake, it's a phone number, call information!!!!!

    Just today she cornered me and said "you never brought me that phone number". I told her I'd brought her the book a month ago. She then asked if there were any more colleges that offered the program, since the September class was full (Ah, so she did call them, and hello...it's July, yes September would be full). I mentioned another local college, one I do not attend. Her response.

    "Can you bring me the phone number?"



    I am almost CERTAIN that if you cannot get through the registration process of the program alone, you are doomed in the coursework itself, honey.....
  10. by   kevcam
    Quote from Julielpn
    Let me be clear, first of all, 90% of the CNA's I work with are worth their weight in gold, and I am in no way slamming them.

    I am a LPN who works night shift in LTC. I have a very difficult CNA who works with me. I have tried to be nice and get along and at best, she will smirk as I say anything to her.
    Well let's look at it another way....
    How long has she worked there?
    Are you telling her how to do things she has already been doing for years and years?
    Are you treating her with respect?
    Do you trust her and treat her like you do?
    Are you much younger than she is?
    Do you talk about her behind her back?

    I worked my way through nursing school as a CNA and I can tell you firsthand, that about 1 in 5 nurses treat CNA's like dogs. Remember she is doing a tough job for very little money, and perhaps she feels justified in her behavior toward you.
  11. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    Quote from kevcam
    I worked my way through nursing school as a CNA and I can tell you firsthand, that about 1 in 5 nurses treat CNA's like dogs. Remember she is doing a tough job for very little money, and perhaps she feels justified in her behavior toward you.
    Maybe she does feel justified, but she isn't.

    I was a CNA for three years. I worked agency, so I worked with many different nurses. Only 2 or 3 ever treated me badly.
    The others (at leat 100) treated me like gold. Probably, because I knew what my job was as a CNA, and I did it very well.

    Since, I've been a nurse, many CNAs have been awful to me.
    No matter how nice and respectful I am. In fact, I've gotten a lot more respect from them since I've started being much more of a hard @$$.

    I've found that many CNAS respond better when I act like a drill sargeant. This goes against my nature- I'd rather joke around with them, and treat them as equals, but I don't get any respect with that approach.
    Last edit by Hellllllo Nurse on Jul 6, '04
  12. by   we_rn
    I have worked many years in long-term care as staff and as a supervisor and have run into my share of trolls. Do your self a favor. When interviewing for a job in long-term care ask about the staff and how disciplinary problems are handled. Know up front if a disruptive employee can be escorted out to the building by security or the police if they will not leave voluntarily. I have done both. Know who to call off shift should a problem arise. If you don't like the answers you get at interview don't take the job. You do not have to work with lazy aides with bad attitudes.

    It is not impossible to fire a union employee. Know what is in the union contract or how to proceed if there is a problem. Know upfront if you will be backed up by administration. You will find out very quickly during orientation if that is the case. If you are not backed up then you will have a hard time getting rid of a bad employee. If you are backed up then most of the time you will be asked to send the person home pending investigation. Learn the correct way to document disciplinary problems. Most nurses do not know how and when to do this right and end up making matters worse. If it is a union matter then a shop steward must be present.

    You have to have the correct documentation and a strong gut because you are in for a long fight. Bad employees will fight for their jobs and will sue for unemployment benefits so your documentation has to be good enough to stand up in court. Bad employees will play every card imaginable to keep their job. I have been accused of sexism, ageism and racism during discipline sessions. Have a second licensed nurse with you when you discipline an employee. If no other licensed nurse is available then a manager from another department will do. You need a witness for support and to back up your version of events.

    However if you handle the situation right you will get a reputation for someone not to be messed with and your staff will fall in line. There is always a leader and that is the person you want to identify and go after. The rest will fold after the leader is put in their place or fired. Remember aides do not make much money and need their jobs. Most live from paycheck to pay check and cannot afford a protracted job search once they are fired. Quite a few work more than one job as well as overtime and thus are trying to pace themselves by not working any harder than they have to. That is not your problem.

    If bad aides can intimidate a charge nurse into letting them slide then so much the better. You do not get paid to do their work; you have enough of your own. You are also there to care for the residents and not act a social service agency for aides with problems. Remember if an aide is verbally abusive to you just imagine what they are doing behind close doors with the residents.
  13. by   BHolliRNMS
    call your don before your next shift and ask her if she has spoken to this cna and what you should do if she has another outburst. It can be seen as resident abuse if the residents are frightened by her tantrum. If the don has not addressed the situation, speak with the administrator. Follow your chain of command as high as you need to. Just follow it and document everything.
    If the cna continues her previous behaviors, clock her out and send her home. If you will not min. staffing standards if you do so, call the don first. If she doesn't respond, call the administrator. I would not work with someone acting like that.
    Your residents deserve a better environment. I'm sure you aren't the only nurse she is acting out toward. Have you talked to any of the other nurses?

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