'Borderline' students? - page 8

Ok, this is a vent. :( In school, we have to participate in a survey about predicted college success vs home support systems, class load, work hours, etc. This is to receive a grant, and those... Read More

  1. by   ortess1971
    Quote from kukukajoo
    You have to understand that a 75 is average- completely average, not bad, not good. For anyone wanting to help average students be more than average and to excell, I applaud every attempt at this.

    Remember, one of our best presidents (kennedy) was a C average student and look at all he accomplished! Greatness can come out of averageness.
    I also applaud helping someone be more than average and to strive to excel rather than just skate through. But wasn't Dubya a C student too?
    Last edit by rn/writer on May 2, '06
  2. by   kukukajoo
    Isn't Bill Gates a college dropout?
  3. by   mayberry
    Yes, there are many inequities in nursing on MANY levels. Having said that....GPA is a just a # and not generally a good indicator of how well someone will do in the work place. I'm an "average student" by the numbers, still not a good test taker, had "average" standardized test results, and do well at work. Yet, know people who had 4.0's and continue to have difficulty pulling things together at work. No I don't think the numbers tell the whole story and should be taken on a case to case basis. Delerium - I understand your frustration and can only suggest to that if this upsets so much, find someone in the faculty who can assist you in finding a forum/platform to either uphold the current standards or change them. I hope you understand that you may be shutting out some really wonderful future nurses (and glad to know that I will never be one of them) Good luck with the rest of your schooling.
  4. by   ICURN_NC
    What an interesting thread!

    As long as extra help is available to all nursing students (time management classes, extra study sessions, resources @ the library), I don't have have a problem. In a country where education is often lacking, devoting resources to improving it is going to get applause from me.

    I am not a fan of lowering standards, and I agree that lifting the student is a much better plan.

    I keep thinking about how we say it's "sink or swim" when we become part of the working world. But isn't that what we often complain about? That other nurses are unwilling/unable to help us? Maybe creating a culture of newer nurses more willing to help each other will help us all in the end.

    Something to think about.

    -S
  5. by   1happygirl
    Quote from EmeraldNYL
    Hmmm.... this is a toughie. I do think students should be given extra support (tutoring, extra reviews) if they need it and are willing to make the effort, but I certainly don't think standards should be lowered for some people simply because schools want the tuition money or because there's such a nursing shortage or whatever. Ideally, students should be weeded out in the admissions process rather than getting accepted, struggling, and flunking out.
    Amen, esp. people who are willing to work AND (as above) PUT FORTH THE EFFORT. I can understand having a bad day and doing poorly, even "failing" a test (in nursing school jingo <75) but NOT a whole class. We have people who are trying to file actions, etc due to failing. Come on. You were smart enough to pass the pre-requs Math, Micro, A&P, Patho, etc. but having problem with (for example) a communication question. These are usually people, in my experience, that are not willing to dedicate time and resources to the nursing school process. I read the book, work, listen to lecture on tape, and notes. I have people call me the DAY of the test to say, "Hey. Can you meet me at school @6AM." Ummm, no. Where were you people for the last two weeks when I was trying and asking people to study?
    Some people in my class scare me as nurses. However, I do not believe academics always makes a good/competent nurse but I would at least want a minimum level of competence. Since teaching is SUPPOSED to be an important part of caring for pts, I would at least like you to know what's going on. I have seen very little quality pt teaching in my 10+ yrs in healthcare. Could it be education ? Probably not entirely, but partially.
    I would like to help people that worked at it. I have seen instructors help people who don't and are in danger of failing (by their own lack of study) but will not help the student who wants a good grade because, "Oh, okay you'll be okay. You'll pass." Whatever....I want to do well and if I am willing to work, help me too (or help me period!)
    Last edit by 1happygirl on May 2, '06
  6. by   Jelli_Belli
    Sympathy= understanding someone's feelings because you have experienced the same situation.

    Empathy= attempting to understand someone's feelings even though you have not been through the same thing.

    I don't have to have had open heart surgery to know that it hurts and I don't have to be failing my classes to understand that some students struggle with concepts.
    I agree that lowering standards is the most dangerous thing possible for the profession of nursing. Yes some people require a little extra assistance to achieve their full potential and that is great but lowering the bar only hurts them more in the long run. You can only be mediocre so long before it catches up to you in the real world.
    I have some issue with the grant money only being used to aide the "borderline" students. What about the students who might be making a 92% but want to strive to hit a 98%? Who is there to help them when all resources are tied up in trying to drag underachievers through the program?
    There have been times that I have wanted to instruction on some of the more advanced concepts discussed in lecture with the professor only to be told that she doesn't have time to "help an A student get an even higher A when I have girls who are barely passing". To me that is wrong. I pay the same tuition as everyone else and if I want to be the most educated nurse that I can possibly be, then I should not be held back by those who do not apply themselves as much as possible or were never qualified to enter the program to start with.
    People tell stories of knowing a poor student who barely passed her tests becoming great bedside nurse. All I know is this, if you can't pass the ACT(an extremly basic test of simple skills people should posses before graduating high school) then I don't want you to calculate my titrating dose or interpreting results of lab values for my loved ones. Basic academic skills are basic academic skills. They carry you through your entire life, not just nursing school.
    I'm not saying that people who struggle in nursing school are not smart, or kind and caring individuals. What I am saying is that their aptitude might lie in another type of field or their kind and caring bedside manner could be utilized in a less techinical way, like as a CNA or something.
    Nurses have struggled too long for respect and recognition of how truly indepth and important our jobs are to allow lower standards to tarnish our reputation. IMHO.
  7. by   nursejennie76
    Well just let me say that the students in my nursing class that were sp freaked out about getting straight A's and would brag about it made the fact that you can look up licenses on line becasue a majority of them have had to take the NCLEX more then ounce!!!!! I would rather have the awsome nurse who was a B-C student then the one who got all A's and can take a great test in class.[EVIL][/EVIL]
  8. by   twinmommy+2
    I went to school in a place that had a high amount of people who grew up in other countries. These people grew up taking tests that were vastly different than our tests and they had a very hard time taking our tests. If there is a program to help people who for what ever reason are having a hard time then thats wonderful! Because a person doesn't test well or has a harder time learning doesn't mean that they won't get the information.
  9. by   ortess1971
    Quote from Jelli_Belli
    Sympathy= understanding someone's feelings because you have experienced the same situation.

    Empathy= attempting to understand someone's feelings even though you have not been through the same thing.

    I don't have to have had open heart surgery to know that it hurts and I don't have to be failing my classes to understand that some students struggle with concepts.
    I agree that lowering standards is the most dangerous thing possible for the profession of nursing. Yes some people require a little extra assistance to achieve their full potential and that is great but lowering the bar only hurts them more in the long run. You can only be mediocre so long before it catches up to you in the real world.
    I have some issue with the grant money only being used to aide the "borderline" students. What about the students who might be making a 92% but want to strive to hit a 98%? Who is there to help them when all resources are tied up in trying to drag underachievers through the program?
    There have been times that I have wanted to instruction on some of the more advanced concepts discussed in lecture with the professor only to be told that she doesn't have time to "help an A student get an even higher A when I have girls who are barely passing". To me that is wrong. I pay the same tuition as everyone else and if I want to be the most educated nurse that I can possibly be, then I should not be held back by those who do not apply themselves as much as possible or were never qualified to enter the program to start with.
    People tell stories of knowing a poor student who barely passed her tests becoming great bedside nurse. All I know is this, if you can't pass the ACT(an extremly basic test of simple skills people should posses before graduating high school) then I don't want you to calculate my titrating dose or interpreting results of lab values for my loved ones. Basic academic skills are basic academic skills. They carry you through your entire life, not just nursing school.
    I'm not saying that people who struggle in nursing school are not smart, or kind and caring individuals. What I am saying is that their aptitude might lie in another type of field or their kind and caring bedside manner could be utilized in a less techinical way, like as a CNA or something.
    Nurses have struggled too long for respect and recognition of how truly indepth and important our jobs are to allow lower standards to tarnish our reputation. IMHO.
    Good points brought up in your post...A lot of the concepts in nursing school aren't rocket science. Dosage calculations, for example, utilize 5th grade math. Good note taking is a huge part of success also as well as being able to read at at least an 8th grade level. I am not completely unsympathetic to those who have difficulty- I have been helping out a friend of mine who knows the material cold but has horrible test anxiety. Many of my classmates though, don't do the assigned reading, talk during class, and put in very little effort in clinical. One girl got mad at me because I didn't have extra clinical forms to give to her and was always looking to use my calculator to figure out dosages. I can name on one hand the number of low performing students in my class that are exceptional at clinical. I know of one student who gets A's but is not so hot in clinical. The cold hard fact is that the students who generally get good grades get them because they work hard and put the necessary effort into their studies. This usually spills over into clinical because they are prepared. Of course, there are exceptions but lowering standards is not the answer. Offer supplemental help and those that take it seriously will use this help to boost them up to meet the standards. The lazy ones will be weeded out.
  10. by   PANurseRN1
    Hmmm. I remember an honors student in my class who didn't understand that you had to prime new IV tubing before you change the old tubing.

    She had a super-high GPA, though. :stone

    Some of the best nurses I know were average, a little above average. That's not to say that someone with a high GPA can't be a good nurse, just that GPA is not necessarily an indicator of how good a nurse someone will be. There is such a thing as common sense, which can't be taught.

    As my best friend said, "They don't put your GPA on your name badge."
  11. by   Lisa CCU RN
    Oh, no they didn't go there.
















    Are you serious?
    Last edit by VivaLasViejas on May 2, '06
  12. by   dmarie (GA)
    please define "minority".
  13. by   Lisa CCU RN
    Quote from dmarie (GA)
    please define "minority".
    I think you know what they mean.:angryfire

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